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Author Topic: The Ultimate 834 Phono Stage  (Read 7903 times)
ZZMoko
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David


« on: July 14, 2016, 07:54:03 PM »

I was reading this article recently on the Romy The Cat site regarding building the ultimate 834 phono stage ..http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=2052

Now when I built mine it was my first ever attempt at building something like this so I just bought the Douk kit complete with all the components so the article has got me thinking about the possibility of building a better sounding version.

One of the obvious things to change would be to create a separate power supply....possibly tube rectify it....?

The main PCB could maybe do with better standard capacitors and resistors and I would probably change the layout of the input and outputs to cut down on cable lengths and avoid any interference.

So what would you guys recommend in building the ultimate (within reason & budget) version of the 834 phono stage?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 11:00:34 PM by ZZMoko » Logged

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Tone_deaf
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2016, 08:28:25 PM »

Putting the psu in a separate box sounds like a very good place to start.  Not sure valve rectification would make much difference, but a regulated power supply would be quite a change. 

Wiring skills definately improve with experience and you'll get better results when you re-do it for sure.

Generally i'm dubious about "better" components, i think it's preferable to pick on something you want to improve - lower noise floor for example - and try and find changes that will get you there. 

Glyn

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ZZMoko
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David


« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 08:17:23 AM »

I was thinking of using closer matched components to try and get as close to the RIAA curve as possible and also to make the stage as quite as possible.

I've seen on the other build thread people used larger caps in the power supply but am not sure how far you can go with that approach?
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ZZMoko
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David


« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 06:29:26 PM »

There's this section on building a separate power supply....

Change over C8 and C9 to larger value, "known good" sounding electrolytics, I'd be tempted to specify at least 100uF/385V Nippon Chemi Con (radial leads) VX series, these will be a VERY "tight fit". Also find a way to bypass them with at least 0.47uF Wima MKP04 or better (tight fit again). You could use Black Gates again, or Elna Cerafine if you can find them, the Cerafines I quite like, the Black Gates I don't like that much.

If I'd build another unit from scratch I would use a pair of Ansar
Supersound 32uF + 32uF 400V, but these are 4" long and 2.5" in diameter, no way you get them inside the original EAR case. And they cost around 50 Bucks each too....

They are available from Cricklewood Electronics in London, you'll have to e-mail them for details.

http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com/

If you modify an existing unit retaining the on-board supply change D1 & D2 to soft switching, superfast types and place a 100 Ohm 2W Resistor between the transformer HT secondary and the Diodes.

In a scratch build unit I actually would/do use a 240-0-240V Mains transformer and a Valve Rectifier (6X4/EZ90 or 6CA4/EZ80/EZ81), and make two electrically independent supplies, with the HT Rail in the EAR split up between the channels, so that C8 and C9 doubled up, R13 doubled up but changed to 200/220K per channal and R14 doubled up and changed to 20/22k per Channel.

Transformers and rectifiers realy belong into a seperate chassis, so C10 and on are off board, I'd recommend per channel a filter chain using 3 pcs each of 510 Ohm Resistors and 3 each of Nippon Chemic Con 47uF/450V Axial Electrolytic Capacitors (Radioshack in the US sells them) or better for that. Of course such an external unit may be added to an original EAR and the HT MAY be split up there too as detailed above if the original supply is stripped out to make room.

To me such a supply sounds much better on pretty much all accounts compared to the original. I have tried both a completely split supply (two transformers and all seperate from there on) and "semi" Dual Mono Supplies that have a common Transformer and rectifier and split up after that.

I have found (not only for the EAR and other phonostages) that if only one main supply exists the arrangement originally used in the EAR is the better one. If you have two complete seperate supplies, bring the two grounds together near the Input, to signal ground and split the PSU Rail as discussed above, taking care to return the negative side of the second added capacitors directly to the same point where the original capacitor is connected.


What do you knowledgeable  valve power supply people think of the above suggestions?
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needlekiller
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 08:27:54 PM »

i think a valve-rectifier will sound better then the ss! all things are right described in the post! i would use them!
after tracking the hole 834 thread, i will make my own, but NO boards, instead a p2p build! grin
tranni,sockets and valves are in my bin, i only need the right "lötleisten"(sry dont know the english word".
i will build it with a seperat psu and all in cooper housing.
cheers uli
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uli

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ZZMoko
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David


« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2016, 09:05:23 PM »

Sounds great...I wish I had the skill to make a point to point version but I don't think the other LH members could stand the strain  shocked they all suffered enough with my "Simple Pre Amp" build and I wouldn't want them to suffer anymore grin

Why is valve rectification considered better than the other style?

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flencolix
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2016, 09:25:57 PM »

"lötleisten"

tag boards
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FELIX

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needlekiller
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2016, 09:46:33 PM »

thx @ felix grin
edit: im looking for ceramic tag-boards! any idea?
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uli

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ZZMoko
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David


« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016, 09:55:18 PM »

Do you mean like these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lot-4-Ceramic-7pin-Tag-Strip-Terminal-Turret-board-tube-amplifier-DIY-49-5-14mm-/221165457907

These look interesting as well http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-end-4-pin-tube-socket-with-8-post-turret-board-2A3-300B-HIFI-AUDIO-DIY-1set-/321892171518
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needlekiller
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 01:33:35 PM »

hi david
i found a german dealer with cheaper ceramic-tag-boards!
http://classic-tubeshop-kunisch.de/epages/8b30ef9e-ace6-43b4-afb5-afc7dc707193.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/8b30ef9e-ace6-43b4-afb5-afc7dc707193/Categories/%22Amp%20Bauteile%22/Sonstiges/95
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uli

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ZZMoko
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David


« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2016, 10:00:05 PM »

Has anyone used this type of board. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201368372434?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Looking on the other threads the Douk black board seems the most popular followed by the uncredited green coloured PCB.....but no one seems to have used this blue version....the price looks really good hence my question.
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Jay
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Caught a bug,it's 'Lenco' James


« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2016, 08:36:27 PM »

All,
  could you please document & with a parts list your 834 build as Id like to do a similar p2p build  wink
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ZZMoko
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David


« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2016, 08:59:34 PM »

No problem Jay....I wish I could do a P2P build but well beyond my skill level at the moment.
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autobayer
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2016, 12:08:52 PM »

Hi David.
This autumn I will post something dangerous: I mean really the ultimate version of the 834.
Why?
Done with octal tubes and point-to-point wiring.
As far as a lot of people tell me, TdP is a genius but a cheap-skate.
In that 834 he uses the cheapest parts ever invented and that´s why so many people now are attracted to better that build. The actual circuit seems really fab.
Best
Chris
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niclaspa
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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2016, 01:43:36 PM »

Chris, that sounds interesting!  smiley  Can we hope that you show us the schematic?   grin
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