Stanton 500 acquired for 78rpm duties

[Deck]

Chaps,

 I've recently bought a Stanton 500 mk2 exclusively for use on my 78 collection.

My question is about styli for said duties.

Is it possible to still get original Stanton 3 mil 78 tips and if not what are third party ones like?

ATM i am using an Ortofon 510 mk2 for  transcribing my shellacs to my Ipod, I don't use the GE RPX for recording purposes.

Deck.
 

BTW : Are Stantons ok to be wired up for mono like the Old Shures are?

[Big Bill]

Deck

The stanton can be wired for Mono no problem , never used a 78 styli in them ,but they are a great all round cartridges , Why do you not use the RPX for recording ?

[Deck]

Well Woody, One of the reasons i don't use the RPX for recording is it's output is too much for my Mac's inputs.
It's bad enough with my regular cartridges gain overload with the GE however the bars never move just stay solid in the red.

Also i prefer the slightly softer sound of regular carts when it comes to playback through the Ipod 'phones.

BTW : where is Brian? i seem to recall either him or Richard saying that they used Stantons for 78 play.

Deck.
 

[Big Bill]

Deck

I had a Stanton 681 with a 78 tip on it and it was great,Bought it from Brian .....as far as I know Brain never used a 500 for 78s , i used one for stereo records and i really liked it.......i speak to Brian nearly every day  I think he's enjoying his Wife's retirement and getting out and about a lot .... no time to surf forums anymore  

[Chris65]

Deck,

I'm not sure about original stylii, but my recommendation would be to get Expert Stylus to re-tip for you, as you can get different sizes to order.
I use the Shure M44 with Truncated Conical stylii from Expert, these were about £70 if I recall correctly.
A 78 collector/expert I know uses them, he has about 20 different sizes to get the best possible sound!!

Chris.

[richard]

Hi, Deck.

Yes. I am swimming in NOS 78 needles for my Stanton 500/Pickering V15 cartridge bodies. The 500 is a very nice cartridge for 78s, in my opinion. If there's energy in the grooves, I hear it with this cartridge. I say this because I have a set of Flamenco music on late Columbia shellacs. Flamenco, as in castinets and stomping. These sounds are excellent and electrifying: wonderful. So are the voices, etc. To me, the old ordinary 78 tip (2.7 mil for all cartridges in the brand) is an excellent all-purpose choice, but of course, for older records and specialty needs, a range of other sizes and shapes can be had from Expert Stylus (let us all face London every day and pray long and hard!). The hookup I used for the experince above was the less-common series connection.

For the computer connection that you described, this would have given you even more overload. Let's hear it from others here about how you may easily attenuate the signal into your computer. My own preference would be to run the signal from the turntable into a genuine phono preamp of some sort, and then run the output from the preamp into your computer.

I get better signal-noise ratio right now with the 500 (or any Stanton cartridge) vs the GE mono pickups. My electricals are different from yours because I'm in the USA, so this may be a contributor. I'm a fan of the GEs for 78s. Note that the GE RPX is, esentially a 78 design; the cartridge is a revision from a long pre-LP version of itself. If you want true authentic sound, this may serve the purpose.

I've long felt that the 500 is a "happy" cartridge. I especially like it because it's so versatile with all the old OE needles that used to be available (I think that I have at least 12 different ones!). If you want to get serious about this and go the full Expert Stylus route (which I heartily recommend), in order to match what I'll call the "ballistics" of 78 needle-record surface interaction, I advise using only certain worn out "core" styli for re-tipping. This would mean that you'd stay away from the more compliant stereo needles and favor either 78 styli (harder to find, of course) or the older nnnn AL tip. This is the only one that I would never let into my house because it's such a vinyl-buster, but its cantilever and suspension should be perfect for 78s.

I've found the 500 to be a real "sleeper" too: it can sound amazingly good when you slip in the right needle. It's one of those cartridges which reveals the sound of the needle more than the sound of itself. Your Mk II designation refers not to the body, but to a late stylus group that was updated with advanced magnet technology. Mk III Stanton products are from the present company located in Florida; in general, these have actually been downgrades from previous offereings.

The present Stanton company has put 78 needles back into production. I haven't tried any. They've said that, at least those that they're selling for the higher cartridge models, have an elliptical tip. But like other information that they've provided, the data can be flaky when they provide it at all.

Ellipticals are definitely not my first choice for an entry 78 stylus! Frankly, rather than an elliptical, I'd rather take a grotty appropriate Stanton/Pickering stylus and have it re-tipped with a conical diamond. Why? Because I don't see how an elliptical would provide much benefit with any 78s that I know of, especially when considering the frequencies of actual music recorded in the 78 rpm grooves. The ellipticals, however, will give you splended resolution of scratches and dirt (nice going, StantonDJ). Note: I have one only NOS 78 needle for Stanton 680/681/Pickering XV-15 bodies for sale.

For a "first 78 stylus," my tip choice would be either Stanton's classic 2.7 mil size, or the classic GE size: 3.0 mil. During the stereo era, I doubt that Stanton ever made 3.0 mil tips for ordinary retail sale. I'm sure that this size was available through their Special Products Division; Stanton was rare in that they actually cut their own diamond tips, and so, like Expert, they could make any size or shape on special order. This was the way that, for example, they made custom needles for The US Library of Congress.

As a quick recap of what I've written in other threads here, some people use one or two old Shure bodies for this work. And Ortofon sells a line of cartridges right now that are still supported with a range of styli (support them, folks!). Ortofon has done business with Expert Stylus, especially for custom work.

[Deck]

I don't normally do this, however he has a few.



I suppose this is a third party job? do original Stants & Pickerings have a logo or wotnot on them?
Also does it look like a suitable donor for a re-tip?

I'm a bit wary of aftermarket stylii atm. recently i bought a ??? brand tip for my Shures from a very nice and well known lady accross the pond and it wouldn't actually fit in either of my M7's.

Deck.
 

[Mike2000]

Deck,

A few years ago I bought some 78 styli for my Pickering NP/AT from Expert Stylus - these were retipped Stanton DJ needles (lovely shade of orange), and were available in various in tip various sizes.

[GP49]

A few years ago I bought some 78 styli for my Pickering NP/AT from Expert Stylus - these were retipped Stanton DJ needles (lovely shade of orange), and were available in various in tip various sizes.

Mike makes a good point.  Disco stylus replacements from Stanton are inexpensive and their heavy-tracking spec makes them good candidates for 78rpm use.  Perhaps that is why Stanton has resumed production on 78rpm styli...it didn't take much of an investment to make them.

Someone used to make a truncated stylus, essentially a spherical with its tip shortened so as not to dig up detritus in the bottom of the 78rpm groove.  I haven't seen anything like that for many years.

[richard]

Deck wrote:

"I suppose this is a third party job? do original Stants & Pickerings have a logo or wotnot on them?"

Yes.

"Also does it look like a suitable donor for a re-tip?"

I'd rather use a genuine Stanton/Pickering as a "core." My reason for this is that I have no idea what the advertised needle is: I don't see any specs in the advert that you posted. I also have no idea whether it's good or junk.''''
One thing that I don't like about aftermarket needle manufacturers is that they don't scribe things on the finger grip. I had to make little teentsy stick-on labels with teentsier writing in order to tell apart the various aftermarket Stantons and Pickerings that I have. I believe that I have two aftermarket needles from Yore that acutally have numbers on them. These were from a "high-end" replacement sub-brand of Recoton. (Not "this" Recoton, "that" Recoton, if you get my meaning).

"I'm a bit wary of aftermarket stylii atm. recently i bought a ??? brand tip for my Shures from a very nice and well known lady accross the pond and it wouldn't actually fit in either of my M7's."

Yup. Buying aftermarket needles for magnetic cartridges is as risky as it's ever been; the success ratio is quite poor. One shining light has been a few items from Ed Saunders (more about Ed some other time). Maybe Jico (reports seem good, but my one sample is poor).

Mike2000 saod"

"A few years ago I bought some 78 styli for my Pickering NP/AT from Expert Stylus - these were retipped Stanton DJ needles (lovely shade of orange), and were available in various in tip various sizes."

Yes. A good way to go. Expert Stylus, of course, needs (as they say in the auto parts rebuild business) cores. So, it's cool if you provide these to them.  You can also use the tougher needles for the Pickering V15 types in the same cartridge body.

Quote from: Mike2000 on Today at 06:01 AM
A few years ago I bought some 78 styli for my Pickering NP/AT from Expert Stylus - these were retipped Stanton DJ needles (lovely shade of orange), and were available in various in tip various sizes.


And Gene wrote,

"Mike makes a good point.  Disco stylus replacements from Stanton are inexpensive and their heavy-tracking spec makes them good candidates for 78rpm use.  Perhaps that is why Stanton has resumed production on 78rpm styli...it didn't take much of an investment to make them."

Yup. As we know, to our sadness, Stanton's been re-born as a disco supply outfit."

"Someone used to make a truncated stylus, essentially a spherical with its tip shortened so as not to dig up detritus in the bottom of the 78rpm groove.  I haven't seen anything like that for many years."

Actually, they've been available throughout, from Expert Stylus, as re-tips all along. They have an entire range of these truncated tips, and you can have them in conicals or ellipticals. The primary advantage is to ride higher in the groove than the chisel-wear from steel needles, which were  always worn out ("My needle's perfect. See? It works."). A truncated needle concentrates wear on smaller patches, so I regard these as "transcription" or "production" needles. I wouldn't use one for everyday play.

Stanton actually made these, and other custom-sized tips, back when they cut their own diamonds.  They never advertised this; you sorta had to know about it. They sold the needles to The US Library of Congress.