Clamping it !

[daiwok]

This is probably controversial but what the heck, lets do it !



I have been playing around with clamps for a number of years and my first experience was with the Michell Orbe which the clamp came with the turntable. This is a clever metal clamp which could be screwed tight and keeps the record fixed in place. It was about the same time when I got to hear the Shun Mook Clamp. I was totally blown away ! Everything just sounded right, it was tonally right. This was still in my earlier years of Hi Fi, we are talking like 10 years ago.

Over the years I have not experimented much but the Shun Mook was always on the back of my mind but with a price tag like USD 1000  I did not pursue this.  :P

My next clamp also came with the turntable - this was the Alphason Sonata turntable, this was a special turntable and engineering beyond the market and its days. Alphason was more famous for its tonearm and many did not really get the chance to hear what the turntable was all about, at one stage I had 3 of them including one which was the benchmark prototype from the factory itself. This clamp was heavy it was machined from solid brass and painted.



This clamp gave better bass with the heavy weight and steady the sound which led me to another even heavier brass clamp from Taiwan



These clamps were favourites for Garrard 301 owners who swear by them. The underside has wool felt which I guess gives you a less brighter sound and more tone



A couple of years ago, I found a nice cylindrical African hardwood and by drilling a hole in the middle I manage to make this into a clamp. This was my poor mans Shun Mook clamp, it may not look anywhere close but this was a wooden clamp with some weight 



This was one of my favourite clamps as it provided that tonal quality which I spoke earlier about, it also provide me better mid range and cleaner background.

During this period I also got the Souther Clever Clamp, this was required as some of my suspended turntables could not take the weight of heavier clamps not would the Clearaudio TQI Souther arm could accomodate my large clamps as part of the Clearaudio TQI Souther hangs over the spindle. A clever hard plastic contraption which basically self clamped with tension created by the hole and voids.





More recently I made a clamp out of slate  ;D





So what is the difference ? well clamps do make a difference - for better or worst, some prefer the heavier weight as it gives more bass - so to say, also it gives the platter added weight, bigger inertia, stablisize the record from slippage, reduce vibrations.

It seems obvious now that a wooden clamp provides a more wooden tone - good timbre, the metal clamps are clean and good in bass department, but my favourite is the slate clamp. The wood and slate debate is the same as before. Once you have experienced the 2 materials the outcome is the same on clamps as well. The slate is the second lightest clamp I have, the sound ? transparency, extensions and a very dark background.

I guess material choice is one consideration, but weight should be another, what is the optimial weight ? how to fine tune so that the resonance caused by the cartridge on the record is better controlled ? some prefer no clamp, I do not agree particulalry in my own system. Its hard to say whether you should use it or not, it really depends on your system and what suites it as the clamp is for tone control as well as noise / resonance cancellation IMHO.

[haydn]

Nice set of clamps David.

My Jewel Tone GL601 is made of different materials to yours but that slate one, home made or not,  looks real nice. Will post a pic shortly. I'd tell you more but can't read Japanese.
h

[daiwok]

My slate clamp is home made  :P

[jon]

Why clamp? Stupid question I know... but still!

Why clamp?

[daiwok]

Why clamp? Stupid question I know... but still!

Why clamp?

It seems obvious now that a wooden clamp provides a more wooden tone - good timbre, the metal clamps are clean and good in bass department, but my favourite is the slate clamp. The wood and slate debate is the same as before. Once you have experienced the 2 materials the outcome is the same on clamps as well. The slate is the second lightest clamp I have, the sound ? transparency, extensions and a very dark background.

I guess material choice is one consideration, but weight should be another, what is the optimial weight ? how to fine tune so that the resonance caused by the cartridge on the record is better controlled ? some prefer no clamp, I do not agree particulalry in my own system. Its hard to say whether you should use it or not, it really depends on your system and what suites it as the clamp is for tone control as well as noise / resonance cancellation IMHO.

[haydn]

Here's a pic of my vintage Nagaoka (Jewel Tone) Crystal Lullaby GL601J . I am told these are reasonably rare outside of Japan. It weighs 700 grams and is made of brass and some type of glass. That thing in the centre is a brass ball bearing that tells you if the lp/ platter is level and on the outside, there's a precision strobe.  There's a felt pad on the underside and the whole thing is designed to then sit on a sort of rubber washer that's about 5mm deep and of the same circumference as the clamp that acts as a vibration damper . 

If nothing else, it's interesting.
h

[brian]

What's the quickest you've got that ball in the hole? 

[haydn]

Have to admit I've got that delight to look forward to as my GL88 is still in bits Brian.
On another tt, around 20 seconds from memory - though I never actually timed it.

[gjwAudio]

...it really depends on your system and what suites it as the clamp is for tone control as well as noise / resonance cancellation IMHO.

Yes indeed David - I agree...  the first (analog) defense before reaching out to the EQ plugins !  And... once again Larry at TTWeights.com has a solution for those of us who transfer 45-rpm singles (or - God forbid - just play them for the perverse pleasure of listening !! - think Pictures of Matchstick Men, etc.).

Last week I brought home the TTClassic 45 Adapter kit (see -> http://www.ttweights.com/catalog/item/6997332/7020288.htm ), and found it to be a worthwhile improvement. Yes, I can see the heads shaking, fingers wagging and hear the gentle tisk-tisk from the know-it-all camp.

Fine then... Let's do A Test !! You're each invited to listen and decide for yourself !

** WARNING **
You will need to play these 24-bit/44.1 KHz files on a reasonably resolving system, lest the subtleties elude you.

Download "TTClassic_45-rpm_Weight_playing_The_Relics.zip" (128 mb, containing 3 WAV files) here -> http://tinyurl.com/y8qghun
While that trickles in, read on...

OK - for no particular reason (except maybe ensure no repercussions from posting copyrighted material)... I chose a 45 I'm intimately familiar with... released way back when.  Nothing like a little early Eighties angst to tickle yer tweeters with:



With lots of these still hanging around the house, the test copy was pulled from the middle of the stash (no, it wasn't a million-seller ) and has never seen a stylus before - fresh as the day it was pressed !

Preparations:
- warm up all associated electronics for six hours
- level iso-platform and confirm speed of Monster Lenco L75 (yup, no adjustment required)
- confirm adjustments of arm and cartridge; clean stylus with Magic Eraser and vintage Discwasher stylus brush
- zap 45 with professional bulk tape eraser (oops... I said it. May be fodder for another thread, another day)
- center disc and dry clean with vintage Decca carbon fiber brush
- zap 45 with Nagaoka Kilavolt

Recording Procedure:
- open Wavelab for recording on DAW
- set recording level via Benchmark ADC1 (consistent for all takes)
- capture the song three times (with NO clamp, with Mitchell clamp and with TTClassic 45 Adaptor & Weight)

- edtit WAV files for heads & tails (removal) - no other changes applied

Listening:
- using Wavelab, loop and compare same section from 3 different takes

Here is the basic setup:



Adding TTClassic 45 Adaptor...



...and matching/ mating TTClassic 45 Weight:



I'm curious to hear observations - on which version is most satisfying to you - and maybe even WHY ? Be specific in praise or criticism (just remember - there's no way to remix it - so please go easy on "the mix engineer is deaf" stuff )

If you can't detect ANY difference between the 3 versions, PM me, and you can come sit in The Sweet Spot here, and experience what I'm talkin' about !

Happy Auditioning...
Grant

[2010-02-11: updated Dropbox link]

[SimonC]

I'd been meaning to try and make myself a slate clamp with my plinth left overs, but haven't got there yet.  I'm flying out on my other trip on Sunday, so I guess it won't happen before then.  I was going to see how a normal wood circle cutter would fare.  I'm willing to sacrifice one to try and avoid buying something new.  I've only got 19mm to cut through.

When I was at David's last month, he rolled through no clamp - wood clamp - slate clamp and I could hear a difference.  I defer to his comments as I didn't have a long comparison, but as we worked through clamps, the sound got tighter.  I couldn't comment on tonality because, as I said, I didn't have long enough to compare.

BTW David, I'm still missing the sound of your system.   I'm trying to devise ways of being able to afford a Supratek Chenin.

Simon

[rfgumby]

BTW David, I'm still missing the sound of your system.   I'm trying to devise ways of being able to afford a Supratek Chenin.

Simon

Good choice if you can collect the funds!

[jon]

With all this chatter, looks like I might have to investigate clamps... wonder if they will make a difference on my system!

[rfgumby]

I was experimenting with clamps again the other day and it was making me insane.  I really at this point can't decide if I like clamps or not!   I seem to like a clamp with the 103R and the UWE wood body playing rock, but with the Koetsu Jade or the Midas body 103R playing anything delicate, well, I'm not sure.  Chalk one up for indecision.  I'll report back if I come to any conclusions.

[daiwok]

I found the slate clamp I made was better combo with most of my carts - this was demo with a number of listeners - some from LH. I am going to experiment more with different slate weighs next - probably drive myself in the looney house with you Scott ! 

On a separate note, I am considering modifying my Clearaudio TQI with slate - am I made 

[rfgumby]

On a separate note, I am considering modifying my Clearaudio TQI with slate - am I made 

No, you're not modifying, you're "re-interpreting"  the Clearaudio...