50/60 Hz Motor

[jmltinc]

A question for the Group.

I have a Lenco 75. The tag beneath the platter says 115V, 50/60 Hz. The spindle ranges from 10.67mm at the widest to 2.97mm at the 16RPM step (2.03mm at smallest of the taper).

I am in the US and thus have 60Hz. The unit came with the original multilingual User's Manual and strobe disks for 50Hz and 60Hz.

The manual says "The L75 is designed for use with 220 V 50Hz. AC mains but can be supplied with a switchable motor for use on 115, 145, and 225 V mains." although the motor has the usual terminal strip for switching voltages.

With the 60Hz strobe disk, I must set the speed (nearly) half way to 16 to achieve 33 1/3 RPM. It is nowhere near the step for 16 RPM as cautioned in this site's motor primer.

After reading the primer several times, I am more confused than before. I conclude I indeed have a 50/60Hz motor with a spindle that is different than the NA and Euro (only) versions. Can anyone help shed some light on this?

Thanks

[jloveys]

Hi John,
Differences between 50 and 60 Hz motors : http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=68.0

[jmltinc]

Thanks, Jean.

I saw that, but the combination of the User's manual (saying 50Hz), discreapancy of spindle diameter, and outright fast speed made me wonder. 

I will chalk it up to a 50/60Hz motor and be very happy the idler does not ride close to the 16RPM step!

[reinderspeter]

From your measurements I'd say that what you have is a standard 60Hz spindle

[mfrench]

I have a 115v, 145v, 225v motor, and the spindle is the same diameters as the typical 60hz spindle.
You might check the adjustment of the idler arm carrier/speed controller interface cam (a comma shaped "cam" below the top plate).  You can adjust the position of the speed controller this way.  Mark the cam before you make any alterations, so that you can easily return to where you began if it goes sideways on you.

[jmltinc]

Well, I guess I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. It works just fine with the idler adjusted in the new position. I have bigger fish to fry. I want to mod this dude but need to familiarize myself with sources in Southern California. Heck, I need to familiarize myself with the state!

Baby steps. I'll hound you folks later...

Thanks.

[alexg_ht]

Instead of creating another thread, I will ask my question here.

Is the only difference between the 50 and 60Hz the diameter of the shaft?

Thanks.

[h-j-hill]

Instead of creating another thread, I will ask my question here.

Is the only difference between the 50 and 60Hz the diameter of the shaft?

Thanks.

For 50 and 60 Hz supplies, which cause different rates of shaft rotation,
the motors were fitted with speed cones of different profiles/diameters.

For different supply voltages the coils were connected/wired differently
(with the added complexity of different coils - see the coverings: yellow, green etc)

[SteveM]

Instead of creating another thread, I will ask my question here.

Is the only difference between the 50 and 60Hz the diameter of the shaft?

There might be a chance yours is both 50 & 60 Hz, one of those rare, so-called "military outlet" 110/220V-50/60Hz versions.
Do you know if Lenco were sold in the Philippines, other than military bases.
Anybody know what size shaft those ones have and how they handled different frequencies?
According to Jean's link http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=68.0 neither the Euro nor the N.American motor will work properly out-of-the-box on 220V-60Hz.

[JayM481]

I think most, if no all, motors are capable of being wired for 110/220V, and can run on either 50 or 60 Hz without problems, but the spindle is what determines whether the platter can spin at the correct speed, and there's no such thing as a "dual frequency" version of that as far as I know. For the adventurous the plentiful 50Hz spindle version can be ground down to a size acceptable for 60Hz. The other way 'round isn't possible.

[rfgumby]

I haven't found any difference between the different color coils, aside from resistance.  I've wired both the green and yellow coils in the parallel and series in North America at 120 V and haven't found any heat issues or any other problems.

We've never seen a motor that is actually 50 and 60 Hz, as far as we know they have to be one or the other.  The only way to run one or the other in the wrong frequency mains country is to move the motors inward or outward radially relative to the spindle.

[GP49]

There is no issue with running a 60Hz motor on 50Hz, as far as I've seen, if you are not concerned with 16 and 78rpm.  The position of the speed lever will not line up with the speed markings, but at 33 and 45 it will RUN PROPERLY, since the Lenco's key feature is continuously-variable speed.

[colin]

I haven't found any difference between the different color coils, aside from resistance.  I've wired both the green and yellow coils in the parallel and series in North America at 120 V and haven't found any heat issues or any other problems.

We've never seen a motor that is actually 50 and 60 Hz, as far as we know they have to be one or the other.  The only way to run one or the other in the wrong frequency mains country is to move the motors inward or outward radially relative to the spindle.

Wiring the yellow coils in parallel is correct for use with 110/120v supply.  Yellow coils wired in series should be used with 230/240v supply, but will not be dangerous using 110v supply just underpowered.

So in a 110/120v territory either wiring with yellow coils would be safe.  

In a 230/240v territory they should only be used in series, applying 230/240v to the parallel connection of yellow coils would not be recommended.

The green coils are designed to be used in series for 110/120v supply.

Wiring the green coils in parallel would require 55/60v supply, and applying 120v is definitely not recommended. I wonder why you would even try?   

It goes without saying that it is not possible to wire green coils for 230/240v!  (bar using a 230 - 110 volt transformer)

 

[colin]

There is no issue with running a 50Hz motor on 60Hz, as far as I've seen, if you are not concerned with 16 and 78rpm.  The position of the speed lever will not line up with the speed markings, but at 33 and 45 it will RUN PROPERLY, since the Lenco's key feature is continuously-variable speed.

The motor does not mind what frequency is used, that's why the NSC can work - it varies the frequency to vary the speed.

However, a motor with pulley designed for 50hz has a problem when run on 60hz - because it runs faster the wheel must be used at a smaller diameter, and the 33 setting will position the idler wheel on the drop between 33 and 16 rpm on the tapered pulley.  It is not possible to get reliable 33rpm.

[SteveM]

There are unconfirmed reports that the 50/60Hz shaft is narrow.
That doesn't make sense, you can't do 78rpm with a narrow shaft at 50Hz.
Has to be a bastardized shaft, 50Hz sized at the fat end and 60Hz sized at the drop.