Lenco Heaven
June 16, 2025, 02:55:22 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: CLICK HERE to Learn How to Post Images
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages:  «previous 1 ... 3 [4]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tone arm cables, what should I choose?  (Read 7164 times)
RCAguy
Member
***
Offline Offline

Location: Silicon Valley PA USA
Posts: 712



WWW
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2014, 04:31:57 PM »

For more discussion on matching MM/MI cart capacitance load requirements by adding/reducing C of cables and preamps, with a selector above, or adding fixed caps, see post #5 and beyond at http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=15134.msg221149#msg221149
Logged

©Robin Miller BSEE AES SMPTE BAS
Author of "Better Sound from your Phonograph" https://www.amazon.com/dp/ASIN   ‎B0BGNF1HVQ \
ISBN ‎979-8218067304
RCAguy
Member
***
Offline Offline

Location: Silicon Valley PA USA
Posts: 712



WWW
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2014, 04:50:09 PM »

There is a possible tradeoff between hum susceptability and cable capacitance.  If you're having trouble with hum, are using unbalanced coax interconnects, and are able to buy or roll your own cables (requires skill with soldering and a pliers), consider changing to balanced cables.  (If your cable run is very short, e.g. the phono preamp is inside the turntable, you probably don't need this fix.)  While audio-quality STP (shielded twisted pair) cable generally has higher capacitance per foot than coax, if you can shorten the run, wire new cables as follows:

Connect the cartridge wires only to each channel's twisted pair; one shield only to the arm ground.  At the male RCA phono connectors that plug into the preamp inputs, connect both the "cold" of each twisted pair and its shield to the connector's shield, and the "hot" of the twisted pair to the center pin.  This reduces the possibility of hum from ground loops, and the twisted pair reduces picking up induced hum along the way.  Now with the change in cable, refigure and adjust your total capacitive load based on the cartridge's specs and you're good to go!
Logged

©Robin Miller BSEE AES SMPTE BAS
Author of "Better Sound from your Phonograph" https://www.amazon.com/dp/ASIN   ‎B0BGNF1HVQ \
ISBN ‎979-8218067304
hatehifi
Member
*
Offline Offline

Age: 71
Location: likely, Germany
Posts: 8,820


"fascinating times in which we are living"~grandpa


« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2014, 07:43:47 PM »

 Thanks Robin for the excellent contributions!

Cheers!
Logged

John
Little Feat (Mercenary Territory)  
"I've did my time in that rodeo. It's been so long and I've got nothing to show. Well I'm so plain loco,  fool that I am I'd do it all over again."
RCAguy
Member
***
Offline Offline

Location: Silicon Valley PA USA
Posts: 712



WWW
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2014, 09:00:46 PM »

Glad to help.  I posted at http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=15147.15 a photo of the 3-position C-load selector (schematic on the previous page of this thread, post #44) showing how it might be possible for a DIYer (skills with drill, pliers, and soldering) to retrofit it even in a very limited space within an existing preamp.  BTW the link goes to page 2 of further discussion of cartridge capacitive loading in preamps.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 11:07:12 PM by RCAguy » Logged

©Robin Miller BSEE AES SMPTE BAS
Author of "Better Sound from your Phonograph" https://www.amazon.com/dp/ASIN   ‎B0BGNF1HVQ \
ISBN ‎979-8218067304
RCAguy
Member
***
Offline Offline

Location: Silicon Valley PA USA
Posts: 712



WWW
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2014, 10:45:39 PM »

Cload graph in post #36 on p3 redrawn for clarity - Robin
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 03:26:23 AM by RCAguy » Logged

©Robin Miller BSEE AES SMPTE BAS
Author of "Better Sound from your Phonograph" https://www.amazon.com/dp/ASIN   ‎B0BGNF1HVQ \
ISBN ‎979-8218067304
richard
Member
*
Offline Offline

Location: Southeast Tennessee, USA
Posts: 7,797


« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2014, 12:30:25 AM »

Thoughts:

When I started this topic, I had no idea that such intense interest, experiments, and measurement activity would result. Reading over the two threads today, my head is almost spinning.

Shostakovich, Louis: What a wonderful illustration. Here is a composer who sometimes seems the closest to a latter-day Bach that we've had: a perfect marriage of technique with emotion, but darker, darker. What would his larger works have been if he hadn't had Stalin and his enforcers breathing down his neck?

Hindemith once said (paraphrasing an interview in Parade magazine, "There are three people in the world today who are worthy of the name 'composer:' Stravinsky, Shostakovich, and me, and I'm not sure about Shostakovich." Hindemith had this thing with his ego: he was damn wrong.

Regarding this thing about the capacitance loading and the effect on only the upper phono frequency range vs. our personal hearing spectrums (sp?), I've been picking up a perception effect that's interesting. As we age, our high frequency range/perception becomes progressively truncated. Thus, we may no longer be able to hear the highest sounds as well as we once did (I'm noticing that for me, orchestral triangles are no longer an "in-my-face" sound, but are very recessed). But I think that perception of fast waveform leading edges still have a perceived effect, even with normal (or Beethoven's accelerated) hearing loss. So, even though measured acuity may not be audible in old age, some effect will still be perceived in fast transients. In experiments with their extended-range cartridges, Stanton's people made an observation to this effect. I think that further perception research may be interesting.

Cabling:
Maybe 25 years ago, Belden sent me samples of a super-low-capacitance cable they'd put out. It's interesting stuff. I measured an amazing 8 pF per inch. Usually, cables like this get their reduced capacity from having large spacing between the center conductor and the ground wrap (shielding). This cable, however, is very thin. I don't recall the model number of the product. It's good, and it's expensive. Also, the shielding could be a bit better. The center conductor is steel, with what this entails. It's good stuff and not difficult to work with.

Someone in the Boston Audio Society was playing with it. He applied a "Lencophile solution" to improve  the shielding while retaining the capacitance: he wrapped the cable with some sort of plastic foam and surrounded that with grounded aluminum foil, taping the mess together. On one hand, he achieved his low-noise goal. But the cable is about as attractive as a basement steam pipe, not conducive to marital bliss.

For real-world application, we may not need capacitance this low in our cables. We may be able to get by with twice the capacitance or a bit more and better shielding, especially if we're willing to put up with fatter cables (the thickness of ignition wire). Someone mentioned the need to conserve money. I've been nursing that Belden cable, but I've also been using some very good fat cable from Taiwan that I got from MCM, a USA company that's owned by a similar British parts house with the weird name of "Inone." And, logically, the same cable may be available from them in the UK. The mating plugs are very good quality, but fastening the shields to the plugs has been non-intuitive and non-solid. I've found, over the years, that technical communication with MCM has been very disappointing, so they were no help to me in solving this particular problem. It's still an issue. But the cable itself is good for phono and very affordable. I recall something like 18 picos/foot. I don't know if it's still available.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 12:39:09 AM by richard » Logged

Richard Steinfeld
Author of The Handbook for Stanton and Pickering Phonograph Cartridges and Styli.
Pages:  «previous 1 ... 3 [4]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

2009-2025 LencoHeaven

Page created in 0.152 seconds with 18 queries.