Nagaoka MP-500

[GP49]

Also seems to pick up ticks and clicks a lot more than the Shure 44-7 cart it replaced.

If you were operating the Shure M44-7 at or near the upper end of its 1.5-3.0 gram tracking force,
that is to be expected.  At that force the Shure would have been pushing dust particles aside, where
the Nagaoka at 1.3 to 1.5 grams would be "playing over" many of them.

[wer]

Thank you Gene. Looks useful if it is not too expensive.

[GP49]

Thank you Gene. Looks useful if it is not too expensive.

About $50 US!!!

[JBberg]

Thanks for the replys guys!

Richard, I don't know much about loading as you said. I don't think it's adjustable on the Slee. Specs say:
Input impedance: 47k Ohms plus 100pF (200pF approx. with arm cable capacitance)
Does that sound ok for the MP-500? Arm cable is a pink Tonar 1,2m that looks exactly like the Jelco.

Nic, it's brand new. I've just tried the vtf between 1,5 and about 1,8 on the arm scale.

Werner, yep that's the aligment tool I'm waiting for. It's supposed to be easy enough for a total noob like me.

Gene, that sounds logical about the tracking weight, specially with the original L70 arm. I guess A lower compliance cart would be better in that respect.

[richard]

Hi, Janne.

Please check out two recent threads here where we discussed this.
The first step for you is to find out what Nagaoka recommends as a capactance load for the cartridge. The second step is for you to approximately meet this load with the sum capacitance of all your wiring between the cartridge and the preamp's first stage of gain. If your preamp's manufacturer has told you the unit's phono load, that figure will be especially useful. Unfortunately, most amp/preamp/etc. manufacturers haven't condescended to tell us, and it's virtually impossible to measure this within an electronic circuit. But we can, at least, measure the cables.

Resistance is usually not a problem because it's been standardized for a long time.

When you've taken care of this business, then you will be able to hear the cartridge/stylus as Nagaoka intended.

[nic]

Gene, that sounds logical about the tracking weight, specially with the original L70 arm. I guess A lower compliance cart would be better in that respect.

Errr Houston we might a slight problem here... to the best of my knowledge, the original L70 arm/headshell has no ability for adjustment of alignment so it's just screw in and play.
The M44 with it's conical/spherical may well be more forgiving than the Shibata in the MP 500 in this arm.

[richard]

I agree with Nic. I wouldn't bother attempting the use of any ellipsed stylus in this arm.

This aspect of the L70 shows the age of its design, from a time when cartridge alignment was ignored and many manufacturers didn't even allow for overhang adjustments. This actually mattered for mono reproduction, too, and even a conical tip will benefit from alignment.

Something just occurred to me that may help.
It may be possible to fabricate an adaptor frame insert. This would screw into the existing L70 headshell and allow the cartridge screws to be moved along slots.

My idea would space the cartridge a bit further out and might be a problem with a tall cartridge, but not with a low one. If the height of the L70 arm can be raised, this could work out.

One issue is that most parabolic styli that I know of tend to be light trackers, which this arm won't support. I haven't heard of any, but there may be styli in other brands that are similar to the Stanton D????SL in the 680 series (complete cartridge number 680SL, which is a superb medium-heavy performer with a parabolic (Stereohedron) tip). I don't think that these particular Stanton products have been made in at least 24 years.

[JBberg]

Errr Houston we might a slight problem here... to the best of my knowledge, the original L70 arm/headshell has no ability for adjustment of alignment so it's just screw in and play.
The M44 with it's conical/spherical may well be more forgiving than the Shibata in the MP 500 in this arm.

Oh, what I mean was that the Shure cart came in the original L70 arm and that it suited it well. Now I've got the MP500 for the FR54 arm I bought. Sorry for the confusion.

Richard, I'll look into those threads on loading, see if I get wiser. Thanks!

[JBberg]

Ok, read about loading. Not quite sure how to implement this in practise except for trial and error. But good stuff to know. Maybe a capacitance meter could be useful, I do dabble in guitar amps occaisinally too.

Have noticed that my speakers are woofing (not audible). I mounted the cart with a 3g shim to aid vta. Arm is as low as it goes and have a 6mm glass mat. Realised this might be a mismatch in weight so took away the metal shim and replaced it with a thicker one of dense foam (like the Cartridgeman Isolator, sort of..). What I do notice is a more even balance. The great bass is still there but mids are meatier. Could be just better vta or then the arm was too heavy earlier. Anyway, liking it much better now!

Have to experiment with shim materials though, have read that too much damping might not be good.
Here's a pic:



Geodisc tool and scales arrived and are making life much easier

[JBberg]

Update,
After some burn in, the MP500 has evened out and become very transparent. Imaging is great, very airy and natural. I really enjoy this cart with all kinds of live, orchestral and acoustic music. Good for jazz, blues, small ensemble stuff. Realistic 'in the room' sound.

Even though bass is fast and tuneful, I'm not convinced about this cart with rock and heavier music. It is a little too laid back, especially since my amp is the same way. The mids and the 'melody' of pop/rock isn't as forward as I would like. Maybe I wan't something a bit more coloured?

So, I'm building my MC step up and looking at suitable carts. Already have a headshell waiting.

[jloveys]

Just come back from Munich High End and the Tonar showroom has replacement styli for MP50, actually MP500 at 260 Euros. Just for the needle.
Expensive but worthwhile considering the high quality of those cartridges. Just to tell you to be careful when using them, they are fragile and need care...

 

[maco]

.... Just to tell you to be careful when using them, they are fragile and need care...

You must be kidding ... 

[richard]

Jean, thank you for that reality check about Nagaoka's pricing.
I have not been studying them, but have only taken notice here and there. I've been aware of this company, in the past, as an original supplier to other distributors under other names, as well as a maker of sub-assemblies. And all of good quality.

Philosophically, their pricing has seemed quite high to me. But, on the other hand, they impress me as having planned carefully and well. You know my book and have seen the range of Stanton's former products. Stanton's big mistake, in my opinion, was to have priced their audiophile-quality cartridges and styli too low. Having been an engineering- rather than a sales-driven company, they did not understand two vital necessities:
- Perceived value to audiophiles (the more expensive, the better, "higher performance," most desirable).
- Pricing to reflect higher unit costs as sales volume fell away due to the dominance of digital media, already under way.

Although Nagaoka's pricing makes me wince as a customer, I think that their pricing shows wisdom. And it's hard for me to avoid the bitter reflection that, if Stanton had followed the same pricing logic with both their audiophile products as well as their archival products, Stanton would still be with us today, doing what they did best. Stanton's needles were the strongest in the business, and with them, I do not worry too much about breakage: I just use them.

[jloveys]

The fact that I gave two MP50 to Rudy who is DJ and absolutely not into High End compulsory illness is that the sound he experienced was 10 times better than his Ortofon DJ cartridge costing 20 Euros.
But...the Nagaoka is made to fit a high quality tonearm with carefull lifting mechanism, not the crappy Technics tonearm that fits the SL1200 turntable.
So every lift down to the record groove is like a hammer on a big needle and the cantilever is destroyed very fast.
Even with "High End" tonearms the lifting mechanism is NOT up to the task for carefully gently deposing the needle in the groove, a must to preserve our fragile and expensive cantilevers.
So before buying a tonearm, make sure to test this important feature...

[richard]

Jean (and anybody else who knows these cartridges):

What's the problem with these cantilevers?