Nagaoka MP-500

[JBberg]

Jean, you're scaring me!

[jloveys]

Jean (and anybody else who knows these cartridges):

What's the problem with these cantilevers?

Boron. That is not as solid as tubular aluminium.

[maco]

Jean,
I agree these high-end cantilevers are very delicate, so the sapphire cantilever I broke. I used the cart for a while on the Jelco 750 tonearm, but never convinced me there  , so I used it mostly on the L75 carbon wand reworked arm with a very light headshell, phantastic sound. I never had an issue by gently cueing the cart manually and delicately on the disk. I always do some mental yoga when cueing manually.  I finally broke it by hitting the tonearm with my forearm while it was sitting on the armrest... stupid... it went flying against the platter and broke off laterally, as you can see on the pictures I posted. I don't know how brittle is boron, but I can find out at the price of USD300,- 

[richard]

Jean, you're scaring me!

Me too!

Handling accidents happen around turntables, even to the most careful of us.
Breaking a stylus helps create maturity.

[ecosprog]

Jean (and anybody else who knows these cartridges):

What's the problem with these cantilevers?

What problem? Who suggested that a problem exists with Nagaoka cantilevers?

Boron is chosen for the top range cantilevers because it is rigid and strong. It allows much thinner, and therefore lighter, assemblies to be made. These certainly aren´t designed for DJ use, but I have three Nagoaka MP series cartridges with boron cantilevers and, through normal handling, they have all survived unscathed.

[jloveys]

Hi Reese, I did not say that there is a problem, just using them without care can break the cantilever.

[ropie]

Hi Reese, I did not say that there is a problem, just using them without care can break the cantilever.

Agree - I lost half an MP11 Boron cantilever a few years ago through what I considered to be 'normal' use

[richard]

Not long ago, a stylus fabricator told me that there's one rare-metal that's been used for high-performance cantilevers that changes its characteristics over time, becoming brittle and fragile. Unfortunately, I didn't record which material this is, and I don't remember. Maybe it was boron, maybe not.

I'm just filing away what I hear, comparing it to my experiences with classic Stanton designs and materials. Although Stanton's cantilevers were outstanding in their balance between ruggedness and performance, I know of two cases in which people broke the cantilevers of their 881 cartridges. There's aluminum and then there's aluminum. And in various ways, metals can be shaped so that they achieve superior stiffness and lightness.

So, when people talk about cantilevers with "aluminum this" and "aluminum that," I think about, which aluminum are we talking about, and how is it shaped? I first became aware of "swedging" metal in dealing with the keywork of woodwind musical instruments.

I prefer this approach vs. straight tubes. For at least some of his ceramic cartridges, Joe Grado devised a brilliant peened aluminum half-I-beam cantilever which is a stiff, inexpensive, relatively-low-mass marvel. I looked at this closely, and said to myself, "Wow: a genius!"

But, I managed to crimp one. I learned. Luckily, I have an extra of this elliptical needle and three conicals.

When you do stereo repair for money, you become observant about the way that things fail. After all, that's why your customers walk through the door. I actually am careful and don't tend to damage my needles. But I've had many decades in which to accumulate the accidents (of which there have been only three). If not for mostly using Stantons, I'd have probably had a couple more. So, that's often my focus: practicality. But don't get me wrong: I want accuracy.

I'm taking a sideways interest in Nagaoka because in offering serious, sensible stylus options for existing records, they're taking, in part, the position of the classic Stanton company, and filling a real void.

[SteveM]

Agree - I lost half an MP11 Boron cantilever a few years ago through what I considered to be 'normal' use

If it was boron it wasn't an MP11, they were alu, MP20 & up were boron.

[ecosprog]

If it was boron it wasn't an MP11, they were alu, MP20 & up were boron.

Nope, MP11 came in a boron cantilever version. There was also a third party modified version called Stilton MP11 that also had a boron cantilever and a modified MP11 body.

[maco]

Not long ago, a stylus fabricator told me that there's one rare-metal that's been used for high-performance cantilevers that changes its characteristics over time, becoming brittle and fragile. Unfortunately, I didn't record which material this is, and I don't remember. Maybe it was boron, maybe not.
....

Maybe beryllium  ? Wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium

[SteveM]

Nope, MP11 came in a boron cantilever version. There was also a third party modified version called Stilton MP11 that also had a boron cantilever and a modified MP11 body.

I'm getting old - there was a (rare) boron version, standard version was alu though. I also have a MP11 Gold which uses a coating on some fancy metal IIRC. I can't find anything official on the net for the Gold & boron versions.

[ropie]

The boron MP11 were quite common in the UK at one time. I've had 3 over the past 10 years or so, all second hand but all excellent.