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Author Topic: Lenco B-60 - The saga begins !!!  (Read 2503 times)
kazumof
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« on: May 24, 2017, 05:31:22 PM »

I've been visiting this Forum for a few years, but this is my first post.
So I'll give you a brief introduction of myself.
I am Portuguese and I live in Portugal.
I like music since I was very young. At age 12 I started to buy my first vinyl records. In the 90's, when I was already working and had more purchasing power, I acquired a lot of used records in perfect conditions at very low or even free prices. At that time people were discarding record players and vinyl records as if they had leprosy. It was the golden age of the CD.
Paradoxically, it was at this time that the passion for turntables was born. I had a lot of vinyl records, the CD's were very expensive, and the turntables that I never dreamed to have few years ago, were now in the garages, in the attics and even in the trash. I then started to get a lot of turntables, some real masterpieces, and in my free time I was restoring this wonderful machines.
How more I learned about them, more grew the passion.
In 1992 or 93 a friend who had a repairing business of sound and image equipment told me that he had in a garage a bunch of turntables that people had delivered for repair but had never come looking for. He was going to send everything to a recycling bin, so if I wanted some, I could go there and pick. Most of them was that mass-made plastic stuff in the 80s. But I found there a Lenco L75. I only knew the L75 in photos. I've never seen one on live before. But when I took it I got scared me with the weight.
I took him home. The paint was in bad condition, the motor made some noise, the rubber of the plastic idler wheel was dry and hard, slipping on the platter making a horrible noise. But I was amazed at all that simplicity. Yes, with only two or three tools you could disassemble and assemble everything. Very different from the other turntables I knew with lots of small parts, springs, gears, complex electronic circuits, transformers, etc, etc, etc
I replaced the old rubber idler tire by an o'ring and put a few drops of oil on the spindle. Then just I did it that. I put to play a record with the ADC 220XE that was mounted there. What a surprise!. It was love at first sight. Later I replaced the plastic idler wheel with a metal one, replaced the V-blocks and put a Shure V15 Type II.  It was easy to conclude that I was faced one of the best turntables of all time and with the greatest potential for evolution. With the advantage of buying them, at that time, at ridiculously low prices. Rolls Royce at the price of Fiat Uno.
I have over 100 turntables in perfect condition and many others in the queue waiting for the operating room. Some are the most mythical and iconic, some worth several hundred and even several thousand euros. But my favorites are the heavy-platter Lenco's. They are turntables that allow all kinds of tuning, for good and for bad (unfortunately).  But they never die. I have already found some completely murdered, but with some work, patience and affection, they came back to life with such good health, or better, than on the days when they left the factory.

So, my passion for these turntables led me to search and collect all models of heavy platter, including those mounted on “music centers”.
My interest is mainly about the turntables produced and marketed under the Lenco brand. All those marketed by other brands are exactly the same ones that were marketed by the Lenco brand. Only differ in the brands and designation of the models, and one or another aesthetic detail, with the exception of the G88 and G99.
So I would like to start my participation in this forum with one who, in my opinion, was the first Lenco of heavy-platter - Lenco B-60 introduced in 1957.
It's a very, very rare model. I had already read a few things in forums, including this, about their existence and seen some photos. But they were models in very bad condition, some had already been modified. Finally I found one in the original state and, fortunately, in very good condition.
I'm going to put some photos and try to demonstrate why, in my opinion, the Lenco B-60 was introduced in 1957, starting the saga of heavy-platter Lenco.

It is obvious that there is a heavy-platter Lenco with the designation of B-60. I have one in front of me. It is also obvious that the B-60 was earlier than the L-70

Lenco B-60, serial number 1580:



The label with the model and serial number:
[url=http://i.imgur.com/ymVsZf3.jpg]


The serial number is also engraved on the chassis and the back of the platter:


There are details that show that in this model were applied some parts of other models that were manufactured in 1957. The most interesting detail is the Idler Wheel arm shift lane. In this case the same lane of the F-50 models whose displacement was done by a sort of cogwheel is used.
The same logo is also used



In the Lenco B-60 is also used the Idler Wheel of transparent plastic, as in the models F-50


In 1957 the company BARTHE (Paris, France) published an advertising flyer that clearly announces a Lenco B-60 model. On the back of this flyer is announced the model Lenco F50-84 (This model only was produced in 1957).


Front of 1957 Barthe flyer


Back of 1957 Barthe flyer


For all this, I believe that the B-60 was the first heavy-platter model and that was introduced in 1957.
According to my researches were produced very few, which were sold mainly in France and the Netherlands (is where this one came from). Lenco company quickly abandoned this designation of B-60 and renamed it L-70 whose first models were introduced in 1958 with a logo, stamped in blue with the words "Lenco Stereo". These are also very rare, I only saw them in photos.

I was fortunate to find this B-60 in its original condition and in perfect cosmetic and working conditions. It has only a few slight marks on the paint and a slight scratch on the platter. The original rubber platter mat at is also in good condition. The yellow ink seals on all the screws are untouched. Even the plinth, which I believe has been with the turntable from the beginning, is in perfect condition.

So, if I'm right about the date of birth of this historic turntable, is now celebrating 60 years.

The heavy-platter Lencos's are turntables with a glorious past, a splendorous present and with much, but even much, future.

Cheers,

Luis
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Luis Gaio
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 01:21:37 PM »

Hi Luis and welcome to LH.

Excellent post and AFAIK you're right: the Lenco B60 is the mother of the L70.

I'm not entirely convinced it was introduced in 1957 though.
The earliest date I have seen so far is november 1958, in a Swiss newspaper, which nicely matches the intro of the GL60 by Goldring at the 1958 audio fair.

The designation F50-84 might be a Barthe invention to distinguish the 4 speed F50 from the original 3 speed F50. I've never seen it on a label. Bogen did more or less the same with the B50-3 and the B50-4 although those designations were on the labels.

How sure are you that the Barthe flyer is from 1957?
We need cold, hard evidence.  cheesy
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kazumof
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 02:50:14 PM »

Hi Luis and welcome to LH.

Excellent post and AFAIK you're right: the Lenco B60 is the mother of the L70.

I'm not entirely convinced it was introduced in 1957 though.
The earliest date I have seen so far is november 1958, in a Swiss newspaper, which nicely matches the intro of the GL60 by Goldring at the 1958 audio fair.

The designation F50-84 might be a Barthe invention to distinguish the 4 speed F50 from the original 3 speed F50. I've never seen it on a label. Bogen did more or less the same with the B50-3 and the B50-4 although those designations were on the labels.

How sure are you that the Barthe flyer is from 1957?
We need cold, hard evidence.  cheesy


Yes you are right. The GL60 was introduced in 1958.
I assume as truthful the information of the Lenco finished production of the F-50 models in 1957, including the "French" F50-84.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/lenco_f_50_84.html

For me, it does not make much sense to advertise a product after it has been discontinued.

I also read somewhere (I do not remember where) that this publicity also appeared in some French magazines of 1957. Maybe some french "Lencoholic" can help us find more evidence.
Also, the fact that parts of the F-50 models were used in the B-60 contributes to my belief that this model is from 1957.

But I do not have unequivocal proof that this is so.
But, we agree, the B-60 it is certainly predecessor of the L-70.
I think we can say without a doubt that the B-60 model is the first heavy-platter Lenco and that was introduced in 1957/58
I believe it's from 1957.
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Luis Gaio
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2017, 11:40:54 PM »

I assume as truthful the information of the Lenco finished production of the F-50 models in 1957, including the "French" F50-84.
Aha, I see where you're coming from.
Maybe I'm missing it but I can't see any reference to the final production year of the F50 on radiomuseum.org.
The pricelist they are referring to is probably this one but there's no mention of the B60 yet.


Quote
Also, the fact that parts of the F-50 models were used in the B-60 contributes to my belief that this model is from 1957.
I don't know, those parts were also used on the early B50-16.
I don't even know if there's any difference between the late F50-8 (without the autostop) and the B50-16 for that matter.

Quote
But, we agree, the B-60 it is certainly predecessor of the L-70.
I think we can say without a doubt that the B-60 model is the first heavy-platter Lenco and that was introduced in 1957/58
Agreed! Let's hope some day we'll get defenitive proof.  icon_thumright

Anyway....
Great to see your rare B60  cool
Are there any more differences between the B60 and the early L70 besides the steel bearing housing and the white bakelite speed escutcheon?



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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2017, 06:13:48 PM »

Hello everybody,

to make things a bit more complicated……

reading the Lenco Bogen B 60 / B 61 Manual it says something about the difference of the two models:

B 60 platter 12" 3 3/4 lbs formed steel
B 61 platter 12" 7 3/4 lbs machined zinc alloy casting

but from the Barthe flyer it says

platter 30 cm, 3,8 kg

wich in this case is closer to the Lenco Bogen B 61 platter

….certainly more to investigate and discuss - or not ?

Max
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kazumof
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2017, 01:31:29 PM »

Hello everybody,

to make things a bit more complicated……

reading the Lenco Bogen B 60 / B 61 Manual it says something about the difference of the two models:

B 60 platter 12" 3 3/4 lbs formed steel
B 61 platter 12" 7 3/4 lbs machined zinc alloy casting

but from the Barthe flyer it says

platter 30 cm, 3,8 kg

wich in this case is closer to the Lenco Bogen B 61 platter

….certainly more to investigate and discuss - or not ?

Max

Hi Max,
As you can see in the pictures the label says Lenco B-60, not Bogen B-60.  What I can guarantee and affirm without any doubt is that this Lenco B-60 has a machined zinc alloy casting platter with 30.5 cm and 3.485 kg without the rubber mat. With the rubber mat weighs 3,766 kg. I am also absolutely sure that this platter is the original because the serial number engraved on the platter is the same as it is engraved on the chassis and on the label. So I can only conclude that the Lenco B-60 has nothing to do with the Bogen B-60.
According to that manual, Bogen Presto chose to give the designation of B-60 to turntables of light platter and B-61 and B-62 to the ones of heavy platter.

Luis
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2017, 02:33:17 PM »

The Bogen B-60 is (nominally, see below) an early L70 with a pressed steel platter, there is an example here: http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=18830.0
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2017, 11:27:34 PM »

I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that.
There are also Bogen B60's with a heavy platter.

My best bet is Bogen started with a heavy platter B60, just like Lenco did, and then somehow Bogen decided they wanted a light platter version as well. Then they named the heavy platter version B61 and the light platter version B60.
I guess Lenco wanted to avoid this mess and renamed their B60 to L70.
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kazumof
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 10:05:26 AM »

I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that.
There are also Bogen B60's with a heavy platter.

My best bet is Bogen started with a heavy platter B60, just like Lenco did, and then somehow Bogen decided they wanted a light platter version as well. Then they named the heavy platter version B61 and the light platter version B60.
I guess Lenco wanted to avoid this mess and renamed their B60 to L70.

More words for what? It's all said! occasion14
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Luis Gaio
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