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Author Topic: My Open Baffle-Less Speaker Journey  (Read 56116 times)
TransFi
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« on: February 24, 2019, 09:32:54 AM »

Sorry guys.....have not contributed to this forum for years. A big hello to everyone, especially those that know me!

I was running my Transfi business, producing Terminators & Turntables, but it became tedious so I recently retired from manufacturing. However, I have not been idle. My obsession with speakers took over my hifi life, and I am here to report on my journey where I think I may be at the end......after 15 years  shocked

It all started when a client of mine sent me a picture of his set up . I noticed some unfinished speakers in the background, and jokingly asked him when was he going to box them in? He told me they were Bastanis and explained the concept of open baffle which was new to me. I ended up buying his old Prometheus baffles.
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Like most of you, I went through many speakers in my lifetime......Wharfdale, Leaks, Kefs, Missions, Pioneer, Yamaha etc.........never found something to settle with long term. But I guess that could be applied to most components in my audio chain.

Not sure if I am getting less fussy or smarter, but the last 15 years have really solidified my system. Keeping away from mainstream, concentrating on products from the little guys with a passion for audio. My amplification is from Temple Audio, my turntable front end is my own, and digital is coming from ALLO (Sparky/USBridge + Chord Mojo). This sets the background for my current set up, but I really want to describe my speaker journey.

It wasn’t until I discovered the Bastanis that something psycho-acoustically switched in my brain. I suddenly started to listen to music rather than the hifi.

I contacted Robert Bastani & populated the baffles with appropriate drivers and made them my own:



I remember running them side by side with my Yamaha NS1000M’s and thought they did something special the Yamaha’s didnt do. I guess it was the live musical presentation that attracted me.
Of course, it wasn’t long before I wanted more. I noticed the 12" woofer (active, sealed box, plate amp) would bottom out playing Police......couldn’t live with that, so I upgraded to the Atlas units, 15” sealed woofers, twin widebands and Gemini tweeters!



This was a creative endeavour, so I had to sit down, calculate measurements and draw the baffles. I had to find a CNC guy to make them. Although I have a workshop and could do the work myself, I usually end up chopping bits off myself.......... ropies_frown

......to be continued

« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 12:44:05 PM by TransFi » Logged

Front End:Transfi Salvation Direct Rim Drive TT, SupaClone UH Tonearm+AT-OC9XML, Parkes Audio Puffin
Speakers: Focal Shape Twins Active Studio Monitors + Custom OB subs
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2019, 09:34:50 AM »

Hi Vic, good to see you back and looking forward to the story.. thumbsup
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ian
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2019, 09:45:23 AM »

Hi Vic +1  grin
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what you hear depends on where you're sitting
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2019, 09:53:29 AM »

Hi Guys....good to hear from you!

Will continue after my bike ride.....alot to get through!
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Psycho Acousticus


« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2019, 10:09:54 AM »

Hi Vic, great to hear from you, would be fantastic to catch up sometime.

Enjoy the bike ride, you still using a recumbent?
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malcolm ("You can't shine if you don't burn" - Kevin Ayers)

colorIf what I'm hearing is colouration, then bring on the whole rainbow color
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2019, 10:24:08 AM »

Hi Vic,

OB's definitely of interest and look forward to hearing more.

Looks very good so far  smiley

Hopefully they'll make it to a meet one day  cheesy
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2019, 11:33:16 AM »

Hi Vic, good to see you back and looking forward to the story.. thumbsup

As far as I can remember this story started already at the Brussels Lenco Meeting in a hotel basement, 10 years ago.  wink

Who do you like to fool? laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
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TransFi
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2019, 12:52:05 PM »

Hi Vic, great to hear from you, would be fantastic to catch up sometime.

Enjoy the bike ride, you still using a recumbent?

Hey Malc.....good to hear from you. Its not like I cut myself off.....I do lurk on here & find out what you guys are up to, and Ian has been around a couple of times.

Still on the bike.....my main ride nowadays:


« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 01:02:08 PM by TransFi » Logged

Front End:Transfi Salvation Direct Rim Drive TT, SupaClone UH Tonearm+AT-OC9XML, Parkes Audio Puffin
Speakers: Focal Shape Twins Active Studio Monitors + Custom OB subs
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2019, 12:53:40 PM »

As far as I can remember this story started already at the Brussels Lenco Meeting in a hotel basement, 10 years ago.  wink

Who do you like to fool? laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

Otto.....good to hear from you! Has it been 10 years?

Need to get on with next installment!
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2019, 12:59:00 PM »

A couple of years or so later, Bastanis released his Mandala, which retained the Altlas wideband/tweeter baffle, but added dipole bass in the form of an 18” S-frame. Back to the drawing board and the CNC shop and these were born!



You will notice the Bastanis used active bass, and I went from using built in plate amps to separate units, in this case XTZ

Bass from the Dipole was more open & detailed, but there was a few things I didnt like. It was very fussy regarding room placement. I decided to ditch the S-frame and mount the 18” woofer on the baffle. I was also after a new 18” driver, eventually settling on the AE Dipole 18. My ‘Monster’ series of speakers was born:



These retained the Atlas baffle. Construction was also beefed up using 38mm MDF and painted white.

Before you ask, I have a loving understanding wife.......... wink

I quite enjoyed these speakers, but looking at them I wondered if I could compact them & achieve the same..I fiddled with the format  (I was getting good with Microsoft Draw) and came up with the Mini Monster......back to the Prometheus single wideband arrangement.......



These actually worked very well and I didnt miss the extra wideband of the Atlas.

During this period of time, I expanded the permutation of this design with Selenium NEO 15" drivers. These suited the Open Baffle format and gave deep, clean detailed bass (Note: unfortunately no longer made). They were also lighter than dramatically heavy AE 18's!



My main issue now concentrated on the Gemini tweeter. I was noticing a lot of sibilance on some recordings, and originally I put it down to the recording. It was about this time I was helping my buddy build a set of Duet baffles for his Hawthornes. When they were completed I was stunned by how smooth they sounded!



....so back to Draw. I wanted something bigger & better!



....and the Trios were born.

These were huge. The 15” at the top is a dual concentric unit with the tweeter positioned behind the magnet firing through the dustcap. Twin Augie woofers below....these things rocked & were smooth. Also, no need for sub-amp as the Hawthornes came with a Crossover.

I spent 6 months with these but I found myself playing my hifi less and less. Whereas my buddy loved his Duets, I was getting bored with my Trios. They were too smooth and laid back.

It was at this stage I sat down and pondered what direction to head in. I didnt like the Bastani tweeter, but really didnt have the electronic knowledge on how to fix it. I wanted to design my own speaker.....but something simple I could cope with.

Enter Full Range, but not in a box.....in an open baffle. After a lot of research, I settled on the Mark Audio Alpair 12P.  I had no idea how this would turn out....but what the hell......…

My experience from listening to FR speakers in the past was not good. Lack of treble was most noticeable, and the units with whizzer cones sounded brittle to me.



So, the Alpairs have a 500 hour run-in time, and they changed  noticeably in the coming weeks. I became more and more impressed as they opened up. I thought to myself ......who needs a tweeter?

Also, before I designed this baffle I took note of what the experts were saying. I could increase my bass efficiency by adding a U baffle at the back.....which I did, and the bass increased. More on that later!

I spent a long time living with this format and exhausted all the permutations:



I did notice the narrower the baffle, the better the imaging, but something still not right.

I happen to listen to a lot of different music, and sometimes the music needs volume......lots of it. These just didnt deliver. Adding volume would cause the FR’s to flap like crazy with their compliant surrounds meant for a box. Actually, I didnt need this compliance as I wasn’t relying on them for bass....I had my woofers. I asked John at Temple Audio if there was a way to restrict the bass frequencies reaching the FR’s. He suggested an 80nF capacitor after the volume control but before the amps would work.

I duly installed this in my amp and the FR’s responded. No more flapping cones and the sound became cleaner with more detail. This was a revelation.

In case any of you are wondering, I am not into crossover design and had always driven the woofers actively  Behringer Ultracurve. Coincidentally around this time, they came out with the iNuke series, a powerful amp that had the Ultracurve built in. Not only that, but it was so simple to program even I could do it. They provided software that ran on my laptop and the amp connected via USB. I could dial in the crossover in real time and achieve perfect integration. After a while, I became quite adept.


« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 12:50:06 PM by TransFi » Logged

Front End:Transfi Salvation Direct Rim Drive TT, SupaClone UH Tonearm+AT-OC9XML, Parkes Audio Puffin
Speakers: Focal Shape Twins Active Studio Monitors + Custom OB subs
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2019, 01:20:30 PM »

You have been busy since I last saw you!  I've played with Alpair 12p drivers in cabinets and open baffles too!



I've since gone back to Jordans in the form of 4 Eikona drivers in a transmission line.  Maybe I should pop round with a pair of Eikonas for you to try  laugh
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2019, 01:51:49 PM »

Yes, I remember those Ian. You will see in my next installment why I didn't go for the Jordans........
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 02:47:55 PM by TransFi » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2019, 01:55:33 PM »

I then started thinking about an alternative to the Mark Audio drivers. I wanted a Full Range driver, but without the bass and compliant surround. Scouring the web and different forums I came across a PRV thread which recommended the 5MR450-NDY.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-waw-applications.html



This had the frequency range I wanted, no rubber surround, very high powered & efficient (unlike the Alpairs), Neodybnium magnets and cheap to boot. Great reviews on the forum.....what’s not to like? I ordered a pair, designed a baffle, which I made myself as the CNC shop was draining my resources  sad, and partnered  with my favourite 15 inchers, the Selenium NEOs.



Now this was more like it. The PRV’s sounded great out of the box. The Seleniums delivered bass and slam. The combination was fast & dynamic.
The PRV's had an uncanny ability to go LOUD very fast!

Still, I was not happy with the baffle design. The U-frame at the back promoted by all the OB gurus to increase bass also increased the room nodes by pressuring the waves. The bass I got from totally open baffles was more consistent and room friendly, although not as extended. I also felt the baffle was colouring the sound and introducing artifacts.

About this time I came across this ropies_speechless:



Now, you can see where I’m heading........ cheesy

« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 09:30:41 AM by TransFi » Logged

Front End:Transfi Salvation Direct Rim Drive TT, SupaClone UH Tonearm+AT-OC9XML, Parkes Audio Puffin
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2019, 02:52:10 PM »

Great report on your journey so far  smiley
I have long been a fan of OB and have several,  waiting see the next move  cheesy

Cheers
Ed
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TransFi
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2019, 03:32:32 PM »

Here ya go............

Inspired by this design I came up with a way of taking the drive units out of the U-frame and mounting them on an open ladder frame, something like this.



A trip to my local Wickes procured the materials. I knocked the frames up pretty quick. The design was cheap, simple and fast....but would it work?



With some trepidation I fired them up...........

OMG. I was stunned. This combination never sounded so detailed and clean. Once I dialled in the crossover I was getting plenty of bass. I immediately thought I would never need to see the CNC guy again!

The next few days I was busy testing. I noticed the woofers dumped a huge amount of energy into the frames. This was being transferred into my wooden floor causing the house to shake shocked. Also, I had mounted the PRV on a sub-baffle, and this was prone to vibrate with a nasty buzz at certain frequencies.

For my next design I thought of eliminating the PRV sub-baffle and also trying to compact the design. I came up with this, doubling up the woofers to save space:



This design was smaller, but still a lot of energy transferred to floor and frame. Vibes were so bad with Kraftwerk I thought the PRV would get torn from its mountings and shoot across the room. I added some braces, but still the design was flawed, altho it sounded great. Eliminating the sub baffle really opened up the imaging, so I was heading in the right direction.

In the next iteration I placed the woofers facing each other, simply because they were easier to mount as previously the rear speaker required longe standoffs to clear the frame. In this configuration, BTW, I had to reverse the polarity on one of the woofers to keep them acoustically in phase:



Also, you may have noticed the Neos have been replaced. Since production of them ceased allegedly because the company was unable to get the ore required to make the magnets thanks to China buying it all up.
Looking for an alternative I decided again to depart from the Open Baffle Guru ropies_nerd advice of light, efficient fabric surround woofers and went for heavy, high Xmax inefficient designs, in this case, Dayton 390’s. What the hell....watts are cheap nowadays using the Behringer iNukes. Tell you what.....this was a game changing decision and I have never looked back. I had REAL bass now, with deep slam and a weight behind coming from a combined cone mass of 1.2kg.....I never experienced it in a home environment. But If I thought this was bass.....wait till the end and all will be revealed!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 09:45:07 AM by TransFi » Logged

Front End:Transfi Salvation Direct Rim Drive TT, SupaClone UH Tonearm+AT-OC9XML, Parkes Audio Puffin
Speakers: Focal Shape Twins Active Studio Monitors + Custom OB subs
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