Starting first L70 Project - where to begin...

[Poko]

Hi

Finally did it! Picked up an L70, heading down into the rabbit hole

A bit of background on my "donor"

Seller pulled this unit, and it came from a console, still had the original unique "AC plug" attached. From what I can tell, it has never been mucked about with - until now that is. The "drops" on the screws are all still there. It did come with a Lenco arm, with white headshell, I just removed the arm so as not to damage it when I move this thing about. Also came with a "flippable" cartridge, Stereo on one side, 78 on the other. Was also wired up for Mono only in the headshell. The bearing was not dry and have not yet tried running the motor. I'm hoping it does in fact run. No rust or oxidization worth mentioning, so all in all, this looks like a good contender for some "upgrades".

Lots to do from what I've read.

Guess I should check that the motor works first.

The idler wheel, which is plastic, should be changed to aluminum. But which one should I get???

Think I will go the PTP route - the new PTP-6 seems like the way to go as I don't want to buy a speed controller right now.

The bearing and housing look to be in really good shape, and there is no slack or play at all. If I need to, this I can replace later I suspect.

Going to make a heavy/big Baltic Birch plinth. Woodworking skills will be challenged with that I'm sure

Platter mat has gone brittle, going to have to replace. Any suggestions as to what would be a good way to go?

And of course, there is the issue of an arm for this. What to do???

9" or 12"?

New, or Vintage?

SME, Jelco, Origin Live or Audiomods?

As funds are tight at the moment, want to start with the essential parts. Wheel, PTP and tonearm.

(Guess the PTP and Arm are the priorities so I can at least get it built/running...)

Arm can always be upgraded later, so I'm looking at an SME 3009 ii as a "starter"

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

Per








*edit wout: fixed imgs*

[Chris65]

Hi Poko & welcome.
What you have is a quite rare L70 Mk.I. Personally I would preserve this turntable as original, since it is quite uncommon. There are plenty of cheap L75 or L78 around to build a PTP based project or just find the parts needed for the PTP (platter & bearing, motor, idler wheel, etc).
Of course, it is your turntable & you may do as you wish.

As for parts, choice is a personal thing based on availability, budget, etc. Lots of reading here on the forum with which to base your own decision.

[Poko]

Thanks Chris!

Never thought about this as being anything "uncommon". I kinda figured they were all the same?

I just want a TT that sounds great, and would be nice if it looked great also.

I'm happy to leave the base as is, problem is mounting a tonearm with the base/arm length/hole. It would have to be modded and thereby no longer being original.

I've seen how folks are mounting the base rotated 90 degrees, which simplifies the tonearm mounting and that is also a possibility.

And then, I would want to paint the thing, which would also make it not original any more.

I would be grateful to hear your thoughts on this?

Thanks again!

Per

[analogadikt]

Thanks Chris!

Never thought about this as being anything "uncommon". I kinda figured they were all the same?

I just want a TT that sounds great, and would be nice if it looked great also.

I'm happy to leave the base as is, problem is mounting a tonearm with the base/arm length/hole. It would have to be modded and thereby no longer being original.

I've seen how folks are mounting the base rotated 90 degrees, which simplifies the tonearm mounting and that is also a possibility.

And then, I would want to paint the thing, which would also make it not original any more.

I would be grateful to hear your thoughts on this?

Thanks again!

Per

The L70 original tonearm is hard to beat. Just do a sympathetic service of the motor and bearing, using the guides here, change the idler to the Italian or Russian one and make a nice plinth as seen in this example.
https://i.imgur.com/JiE2RX9.jpg

Regards,

Anwesh

[Poko]

Thanks.

The TT in the image does look really nice!!!

Guess my "concern" about the original tonearm is its lack of adjustability? No Azimuth or Anti skate adjustments?

And it would seem, there are some "limitations" as far as the arms compatibility with contemporary tonearms?

Suppose I should just find a suitable used cartridge, put it together and try it out as is before I dive too deep into it.

Was looking at the heavy plinth PTP L70 as an upgrade to my current table - plus I want to build/refurbish every component in my system from the TT through to speakers.

More research required

[analogadikt]

Thanks.

The TT in the image does look really nice!!!

1)
Guess my "concern" about the original tonearm is its lack of adjustability? No Azimuth or Anti skate adjustments?

2)
And it would seem, there are some "limitations" as far as the arms compatibility with contemporary tonearms?

3)
Suppose I should just find a suitable used cartridge, put it together and try it out as is before I dive too deep into it.

4)
Was looking at the heavy plinth PTP L70 as an upgrade to my current table - plus I want to build/refurbish every component in my system from the TT through to speakers.

More research required

1)
It is a 10" arm and considering a tracking force of 2 grammes or more, anti skate is not absolutely necessary. There are many users of the L70 here and they have not felt the need for anti skate.
Tilting the tt very slightly up on left side provides anti skate force if desired

By azimuth you mean alignment adjustment? There are alignment marks inside the headshell and most carts align with those. If that is not enough, a wooden adapter that allows the cart to slide in the headshell is available. Check Stanley Engineering on feebay. (no affiliation)

2)
Again, I think you mean the tonearm's compatibility with contemporary cartridges? In fact, most of today's carts are medium to low compliance, so very much suitable for this high mass arm.

3)
Get a cheap low compliance mm like the AT91/3600 or the Toner Diabolic, a new idler from Russia or Italy, service the motor and spindle bearing and start spinning records. You don't need a plinth at this stage, four cans of your favorite soup or bear would do all right. If you like what you hear, move on to making a nice plinth for that and invest in a better cart. If not satisfied, sell it and buy a 75 or 78. You won't face any loss if you sell it in original condition, but a chopped up L70 would be much less value.


4)
You can keep this L70 and buy a 75/78 for a PTP Project.

HTH

Anwesh

[timelog]

Tilting the tt very slightly up on left side provides anti skate force if desired

Cartridge should be used correcty positioned. Tilting just make it track worse (+ additional record wear faster). Forces that cause scating does not depend "Tilt" so it does not has any use in case.  Heavier tracking force need heavier antiscating correction so adding tracking force can make things worse depending case. Records can be played without antiscate correction, but then stereo image can be slightly off-centered.

[pde2000]

Cartridge should be used correcty positioned. Tilting just make it track worse (+ additional record wear faster). Forces that cause scating does not depend "Tilt" so it does not has any use in case.  Heavier tracking force need heavier antiscating correction so adding tracking force can make things worse depending case. Records can be played without antiscate correction, but then stereo image can be slightly off-centered.

From this statement it can be assumed that 'timelog' does not own a L70.  The tonearm is not weight balanced, but rather sprung.  Because of the weight distribution this arm is very sensitive to leveling and a slight tilt of the table is enough to get lateral force to act on the stylus.  The 'antiskate' is just to enable the arm to perform without skipping or sticking.  The oft repeated fallacy of stereo image being 'off centered' is a total red herring.  The long term effect of lateral force imbalance on diamond and record wear is significant but getting records to play well is more important.

My L70s have shure m3d and ortofon 500 disco with stiff suspensions and high tracking force.  They sound fantastic.

[analogadikt]

My L70s have shure m3d and ortofon 500 disco with stiff suspensions and high tracking force.  They sound fantastic.

Same here.Shure M3D and B&O SP6/7 on completely stock L70. As you say, fantastic sound

Regards,

Anwesh

[itskeith]

Suggestions:

1. Without the original L70 tonearm with this chassis, I don't see it as 'original', so by all means go ahead and PTP it. There will be a few who ay disagree 

2. I've never used an L70 arm, but you could place a wanted ad on here for one.

3. I have always been a fan of the Audio Technica AT1005 mk2. Great quality, easy to use and adjust etc.
They can sometimes be picked up for reasonable money (ignore the silly ebay prices being asked by some)
You could place a wanted ad on here for one.
Think there were others AT1007, AT1009 that may also suit?

Several of the AT arms have the same pivot to spindle distance as the L70, so are a drop in replacement for it (though was not quite as easy as I thought it would be). See build link below.

4. Alternative suggestion to a PTP, go this route.

Lenco L70 Anniversary Build
https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=31283.0

By all means ask away if you have any further questions.

If your build takes as long as mine, you'll want to buy another turntable to be listening to in the meantime 

Good luck.

[pde2000]

It did come with a Lenco arm, with white headshell, I just removed the arm so as not to damage it when I move this thing about. Also came with a "flippable" cartridge, Stereo on one side, 78 on the other. Was also wired up for Mono only in the headshell. The bearing was not dry and have not yet tried running the motor. I'm hoping it does in fact run. No rust or oxidization worth mentioning, so all in all, this looks like a good contender for some "upgrades".

This is a complete and historic l70 worth keeping original.  Maybe replace the flippable cartridge.

[itskeith]

This is a complete and historic l70 worth keeping original.  Maybe replace the flippable cartridge.

Hi Paul,
Apologies - didn't spot that bit.

[Devo]

Don't tear this l70 apart, as was said before it is quite rare, so buy a l75-76 and build your ptp 6 and put this beauty in a nice plinth.

Dennis.

[timelog]

From this statement it can be assumed that 'timelog' does not own a L70.  The tonearm is not weight balanced, but rather sprung.  Because of the weight distribution this arm is very sensitive to leveling and a slight tilt of the table is enough to get lateral force to act on the stylus.  The 'antiskate' is just to enable the arm to perform without skipping or sticking.  The oft repeated fallacy of stereo image being 'off centered' is a total red herring.  The long term effect of lateral force imbalance on diamond and record wear is significant but getting records to play well is more important.

My L70s have shure m3d and ortofon 500 disco with stiff suspensions and high tracking force.  They sound fantastic.

Sorry, I get idea that cartridge was tilted when there was considered arm tilting. I do not have  L70.  Stereo image being 'off centered' is easy to observe, but there can be different opinios about issue

[Poko]

Thank you for all the thoughts!

Certainly didn't think I was getting a "rare" Lenco when I bought this - I just wanted to make my own TT

And I also wanted something that could outperform my current rig - Clearaudio Concept w/2M Black. Not a high end rig, but "she aint no slouch" either

My reluctance to leaving it all original is the arm. As I said, no Azimuth or Anti Skate.

1)
By azimuth you mean alignment adjustment? There are alignment marks inside the headshell and most carts align with those. If that is not enough, a wooden adapter that allows the cart to slide in the headshell is available. Check Stanley Engineering on feebay. (no affiliation)

From Analogmagik

"Azimuth refers to the horizontal balance of the cartridge when viewed from the front. This, in turn, determines at which angle the stylus sits on the record groove."

I like to think of the cartridge as a pin/needle. It has to sit perfectly balanced, straight up and down (With the exception of the rake angle) with all forces being applied to it in perfect balance.

As the stylus geometry becomes more "dramatic", it sits deeper in the groove and when it does, all these parameters become more critical.

Being able to adjust all parameters of a cartridge so it rides properly (SRA, Azimuth, VTF, Anti Skate and Alignment) I feel can make a big difference in the sound quality presentation. When done "right", everything just pops into focus.

I suppose I could just pull my current arm out of the rig, and build a quick plinth for the L70 as it is and mount the arm properly somewhere on the plinth so I don't have to do anything destructive to the L70.

Question. Seeing as how tearing this apart would be frowned upon - what are feelings on painting the platter/base?

Certainly wont be original after that, and seeing as how I like color, it aint gonna be subtle either

This is a little desktop amp I made for myself:



And this is a case I'm working on for a Marantz 2230: