Sugden Connoisseur Craftsman III

[PoLitODY]

Welcome Drew, rather interesting build you've taken on.
Use of scrap pieces from what one might call junk and creating something completely "out there" .....refreshing 
Will be back as you progress, good "fly by the seat of your pants" stuff.
have fun...frothy

Hi Frothy. Thanks for your interest. I’m definitely flying by the seat of my pants but since I’ve been an engineer for decades I’m not exactly a babe in the woods. Mind you, my particular forté is electronics so it’s eminently possible that I’ve bitten off more than I can chew. Lol

I’ve managed to snag an SME 3009 that’s in pretty good condition so that’s the tonearm I’ll pair with the turntable. I just need a stylus to match the Shure M44-5 cartridge and that seems like quite a tall order. I also need to know the anti-skate weight. I know it’s either 2 or 5 grammes but haven’t found out which.

Anyhoo. Thanks for popping in.

Cheers,

Drew

[PoLitODY]

Bit of a Saturday update and a peek into some of my methods.



First the thrust bearing upper face mount. I cut down a polyethylene rattle can cap until it was like a top hat without a top. Added double-sided tape to the brim and fixed it to the bottom face of the metal plate, roughly concentric with the 8mm ID tube that I’d previously fixed to its centre with Araldite. Then slid the shaft onto the tube with the PTFE washer I’d previously made. It’s a very snug fit so I’m 100% sure the PTFE surface is perpendicular to the shaft. The idea here is that HDPE and PTFE don’t stick to epoxy. I filled the top hat up to the level of the PTFE washer with epoxy and let it cure. In this case I used UV cure epoxy in 2mm layers. Mainly because I’ve run out of standard 2-part. It’s weird stuff - sometimes develops bubbles when it cures. The top hat came off the cured epoxy easily enough but the PTFE washer was more stubborn. Managed to remove it in the end though. Then all that was needed was to mount it in the chuck of my pillar drill, file the sides down to size and brush a little more UV cure onto the filed surfaces. It’s still not 100% concentric but the important thing is that the bearing surface is as close as possible to parallel to the platter.

[PoLitODY]

Here’s the basic shaft. It comprises three elements. The main shaft was once a stainless steel straw. It’s 8mm OD with 0.5mm wall thickness. The straws are remarkably straight and you can get them in packs of 5 with a nifty little helical brush for a couple of quid. There’s a 8mm ID sleeve with a brass insert at the end with a hole in its centre. That was once the barrel of an old e-cigarette and it’s a very close fit to the main shaft. The shaft point was a 0.25mm drill that I managed to break the first time I used it. It fits snugly into the e-cig barrel and I slipped everything together with a vice. I dabbed Loctite 603 retaining compound onto all of the joints so it’s all securely fixed. 603 won’t let go without heating to at least 200 degrees C and I think everything’s an inference fit anyway. I ground down the tip of the drill so it’s a consistent taper with a rounded end

[PoLitODY]

This is a bit of work-in-progress. I’ve bonded one of the bearings from an old computer monitor to a cut-down metal straw so that I can grind it down to a specific length. There’s a short 9mm sleeve making sure that everything’s parallel and the bearing is overhanging the end of the straw by the amount I need to grind off.

I’ll chuck it into the pillar drill and grind it down with a Dremel grinding wheel while it rotates. This way I can get the ends parallel and control the distance between them to within about 0.05mm



And here’s the result. It’s only a spacer so dimensions aren’t critical but I went for 3.35mm and I measured 3.34.

[PoLitODY]

First rotation in a while. Just a dry run but I think it’s not a bad start. The motor hums a little and platter speed seems to be within controllable limits. Still some way to go but results are encouraging so far.

[PoLitODY]

Bet you thought I’d given up!

Here’s the latest iteration of the Sugden turntable platter. My first attempt had a vertical wobble of around 3mm and horizontal or around 1.5mm. I’ve pivoted to 3D printing the platter in several parts, bonded together with drill blanks ( 8mm for the shaft and 9/32” for the turntable ). Here’s a pic of the platter being bonded using UV epoxy. Will update when the platter looks a bit less scruffy and show off the shafts.

[PoLitODY]

You might be asking yourself why, if I had a 3D printer already, I didn't start by 3D printing parts. Fact is, I haven't used my 3D printer for a few years and I'd kinda gotten rusty using Fusion 360; my 3D design package. But this project and its "So near and yet so far" status has spurred me into action. My initial method certainly helped familiarise me with the dimensions of what's needed and the pitfalls I might encounter. I think this design methodology is probably the best I can do at home without considerable expense.

So, what exactly is it that I'm doing? I'm printing the entire turntable platter in 8 parts. One segment has the central boss attached and the others are identical ( or at least as close as my printer can make them! ). The central boss has a 10mm hole on the bottom side which takes a 1mm wall tube that fits snugly into it. I'm making the actual shaft from an 8mm drill blank which will be ground with a 60 degree point at its lower end. That'll be bonded into the tube ultimately and goes about 2/3 of the way through. On the other side there's a 7mm hole on the same axis and that'll take a 9/32" drill blank that's been ground to act as the centre spigot (? ) for the record.

The 3D printed parts of the platter are totally flat on their upper side since my 3D printer build plate is Borosilicate glass. I assembled them on a very flat Polycarbonate sheet with cling film ( Saran wrap ) over it to stop things sticking. I've used a combination of water-thin cyanoacrylate glue and epoxy glue to bond everything together nicely and I'm filling any small gaps with UV-cured epoxy, which I can cure through the polycarbonate sheet and the cling film.

Next I'll be sanding everything down to just the bond lines and priming with plastic primer before I paint the whole thing with a Satin Black rattle can.

Grinding down the drill blanks is something of a challenge but I can always 3D print pretty accurate grinding jigs which will certainly help to keep tolerances tight.

By the way, if anyone needs some 3D printing and/or design done I'd be more than happy to rise to the challenge. I've designed and printed up a 10mm stand-off for the SME3009 and if anyone else wants one, just give me a shout. Feel free to pass on my details to anyone or if there's a section I should list my services, I'd be happy to do so, now that I'm up and running again.

[wenig watt]

Very exciting! Good luck.

Best regards

Arndt

[Brumm]

Hello Drew, would you please tell us which material you use for 3D-printing a platter? Also I didn't quite understand how you fasten the 8 parts together. I suppose the parts are like pieces of a round cake?
My interest in this is because I have a Dual 1019 with a totally unusable platter, it is totally distorted. This would open a way to rescue it. Printers and software are available here, and a workshop too.

Greetings,
Hansrudolf

[PoLitODY]

Thanks Arndt

[PoLitODY]

Hello Drew, would you please tell us which material you use for 3D-printing a platter? Also I didn't quite understand how you fasten the 8 parts together. I suppose the parts are like pieces of a round cake?
My interest in this is because I have a Dual 1019 with a totally unusable platter, it is totally distorted. This would open a way to rescue it. Printers and software are available here, and a workshop too.

Greetings,
Hansrudolf

Hi Hansrudolf

Yes, The parts of my platter are like slices of cake with the very centre cut out and stuck onto the end of one slice. This is by no means absolutely ideal but I've accepted the reality of needing to bond all the parts together as accurately as possible and fill any slight gaps with car body filler. There'll be plenty of finish sanding before it's complete. 

I usually print with ColorFabb PLA/PHA which is rather tougher and more opaque than standard PLA. I've taken a look at the 1019 platter. It seems VERY heavy. I don't imagine a 3D printed copy would weigh more than maybe 700 grammes although there are some clever ways to add extra weight. I should point out that normally a 3D print isn't totally solid - The exterior surfaces are but there's an "infill" pattern inside them which is printed at the same time. My platter parts have 2.5mm thick walls and 30% infill density which is plenty for a robust end product. the infill pattern is like a honeycomb. if you really wanted it to be heavy you could stop the print before the final surface is printed and fill the gaps between the infill with Tungsten powder before recommencing the print. That'd probably weigh more than the original! Actually, Lead shot would probably be less messy.

When you say your platter is totally unusable, is it slightly warped or totally trashed? What actually happened to it? It looks like it could survive a nuclear war!LOL If its only a mm or so warped I think I might be inclined to see if I could get it corrected on a lathe

Cheers,

Drew

[stratokaster83]

When you say your platter is totally unusable, is it slightly warped or totally trashed? What actually happened to it? It looks like it could survive a nuclear war!LOL If its only a mm or so warped I think I might be inclined to see if I could get it corrected on a lathe

Unfortunately, the platter on the 1019 is made of pot metal and is susceptible to zinc rot

[Graeme]

Interesting work going on.
Not easy to come up with ways of making a platter without a reasonably large lathe.

Worst comes to the worst, maybe get the whole center hub turned up by someone and either make an upper platters or adapt one from something else. Linn maybe?

[PoLitODY]

Thanks for the comments Greme and Strat.

Gaawd! I'd kill for a lathe, let alone one that can spin twelve inches! BUT I do have a couple of ideas. And just like every industrial process, the more convenient it is, the more it'll cost. There are several online companies that'll do CNC machining laser cutting and 3D printing in a variety of materials from mild steel to Bronze and Carbon Fibre . sendcutsend.com and pcbway.com come to mind but there are others. There's a great company in the East end of London ( 3DPrint-UK.co.uk ) who'll print very high quality and robust items in Nylon up to the size of a wheely bin! But the printers cost them a cool Million Pounds each so they're not exactly cheap. Believe it or not, it's possible to cast metal items more or less directly from a PLA 3D print. Basically, you encase the print in plaster and then burn the print out using a kiln. Another "believe it or not" - You can actually smelt metals in a home microwave oven. But you'd need a lot of microwaves to melt enough Aluminium for a turntable platter! LOL

All things considered, a CNC turned platter in Aluminium would probably be the best option. Just for a starting point, a 300mm platter 20mm thick with one hole in the centre would come in at just over $300 one-off or around $200 each for 5-off. A similar shape, laser cut from 9.5mm Micarta ( Phenolic composite ) would be around $165 each or $90 for 10. If someone would like to work with me to put together a design we could get a more accurate quotation for a CNC turned replacement 1019 platter.

I do have a couple more ideas but I'll keep them under my hat for the time being.

Cheers,

Drew

[Graeme]

Turning a complete platter is always going to be expensive!
That's why I wondered about just getting the sub platter turned, to the size of the drive ring, then using an upper/outer platter from another TT.