Decca London Club

[rehabitat]

Interesting! I'm kind of glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that. It did cross my mind that static could be the issue, but my Zerostat doesn't make any difference to it at all. Maybe I've worn it out! LOL

In any case, if the cartridge wants me to know my records are dirty, I'm okay with that. It's helping me to develop better habits!

I have one other issue that I'd like to share in the hope I can obtain some advice on. At the end of each side it produces a very loud pop, like the stylus is slamming into the end of the groove. Not the normal slightly annoying pop you get with any other cart, this is LOUD! I have to be sure to mute the amp and lift the needle before it hits the buffers!!! I have set antiskate with a Wally Skater, so I have to assume no issues there. I'm about to set up a system to electrically test azimuth using crosstalk measurements, but I doubt azimuth error would have any effect here. The cartridge seems to be extremely microphonic, quite sensitive to light taps on the tonearm and to a lesser degree the turntable, so maybe that's all it is?

Thanks guys,
Dave

[Bertus]

On one record I had this issue, too:
Louis Armstrong & Ella Fitzgerald: Ella & Louis (Waxtime 180g Limited Edition)
Played it with a Decca Blue on a TD124 with Lenco P77 arm, the LP was treated with a degritter before, so dirt should not be the issue. Haven’t tried another cartridge/tonearm, though.

Bert
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[drmoss_ca]

Deccas are indeed very microphonic. My Reference became worse in this respect and after reading this thread I wondered if a coil was loose. But after a rebuild by JW it remains microphonic. Screwing on the disc clamp of my SME table is quite the noisy experience! I have taken care to adjust the tonearm so that it's movement is limited to avoid hitting the label. That's not really for noise though, I don't want the label tearing off the stylus.

[Sensai]

Might be just me, but I sense that the sound gets more stable about 1/4 or so into the disc, especially if the disc is a thin one so perhaps not in solid contact with the platter on the outer regions (can't afford a ring-clamp!) of the disc. Perhaps this triggers resonances, or more likely due to the alignment being correct in only 2 places?

[rehabitat]

Sensai, I think your observation re the first 1/4 of the disc is probably correct. At least it seems to align with mine.

Has anyone experimented with damping the cartridge body? I mean apart from potting. I have some 3M aluminium damping tape that I might try applying to the top of my SC4E, but first I'd like to hear some feedback from you guys.

Cheers,
Dave

[decca4]

Has anyone experimented with damping the cartridge body? I mean apart from potting. I have some 3M aluminium damping tape that I might try applying to the top of my SC4E, but first I'd like to hear some feedback from you guys.

Cheers,
Dave

First of all, congratulations at being one of the few that owns a SC4E. Don't ever sell it  It can be troublesome at times but most of the time there are a solutions to the various problems that can arise depending on the tone arm, player, cables and other stuff.

I have never experimented with any sort of tape but if I felt inclined I would go for led tape which I have use for golf clubs. Led is heavier and probably also better att damping due to its very dense properties. As I said I have tried this but go ahead and see what happens.

[Tomcat1969]

My Gold has been potted and podded and still delivers some chirping. Mainly just after it hits the vinyl.

Before it was modified by JW I tried to damp the tin can with a CLD product but I didn't think it made much difference to the chirping.

[wenig watt]

I have been using Deccas for about 13 years. All second hand and with varying results.
This thread gives a nice picture of what you can experience.
In doing so I have two stories. the Decca ffss on Deccas original arms and the Londondeccas. The SC4E plays a special role.
The ffss on their arms are really good. Depending on the condition of the diamond and the suspension and tonearm bearings even very very good.
The London series was very different. Obviously there were some QUALITY PROBLEMS. also, the sheet metal packaging including the mounting bracket is not without problems. The sensitivity in terms of hum and tonearm put many people off.
My Londons have often caused annoyance but sometimes also great enthusiasm. At some point, the indications that it is often a matter of vibration phenomena/problems became clearer to me.
The Supatrac bearing and the use of graphite, Panzerholz and Ipe on the arms has proved very helpful.
The SC4E has always been the least problematic Decca on normal arms. It was as good as an EMT or FR7, just different.
John W. has now built me two systems that are really incredibly good. A ffss MKI with elliptical diamond. It plays perfectly on an overhauled ffss professionel arm, doesn't hum and plays old records incredibly well and feels right.
As far as I can understand, the "sharp" cut and the high output voltage is not a problem thanks to the soft mounting and the heavy arm construction including magnetic antiskating, but perfectly tuned.
The London blue with extended contact stylus is a different animal.  Even with the original conical diamond I had damped the lid with graphite and only with a rebuilt ffss arm made of Ipe it sounded good. Now it is by far the best system I know. Loud, hum-free and incredibly precise. But only in my Supatrac Ipe/Panzerholz arm. Actually also only "perfect" with Vlads phono and a tube rectified JELabs triode pre.
If the needle doesn't land in the groove at touchdown I have chirping, if not lifted out exactly vertically at the end it pops. If I scratch my arm I hear it in the speakers. As long as the music is playing it is better than anything I have ever heard. Dynamics, spaciousness, tonality, voices, bass... the signal to noise ratio! I have to force myself to put my London gold on in between to maintain this miracle.   
I hope someone will deliver comparable quality repairs in the future.
The Decca delivers the highest precision and dynamics, but also extreme vibration and feedback, and great hum problems!
If the arm and the wiring can't handle it...tough.
If everything fits, I simply don't know anything better.

Best regards

Arndt

[wenig watt]

...for humming fun:
Far from being a specialist, I had an interesting experience on my 1938 Presto. The engine hangs vertically under the platter.  The Decca is quiet as a mouse right above the motor. 20 cm away from it, it hums clearly.
In loudspeaker crossovers, coils should always be mounted rotated by 90 degrees to minimise coupling...
In the Decca, the coils are clearly positioned differently than in "normal" pickups. Hence the unusual behaviour.

Best regards

Arndt

[Bertus]

Thank you Arndt for sharing your experiences with Decca. I use Deccas for about a year, namely Decca Blue and Decca Grey. As I wrote before, they were mounted on a Lenco P77 arm, and I am not so happy with this combination. Now for some days I use a Decca ffss Mk I arm with Decca ffss MkII cartridge. What a difference! I played the Louis Armstrong & Ella Fitzgerald LP again tonight and there was no chirping anymore. More bass and soundstage, way better sound over all. There are other problems though, it skipped on the first track of one LP and sibilants of male voices are not so good.
In the near future I will try a Decca International arm with Decca Blue, Grey and Gold I own. The Int’l arm has some damping which is new to me, let’s see.

Bert
(going to sleep now)

[rehabitat]

First of all, congratulations at being one of the few that owns a SC4E. Don't ever sell it  It can be troublesome at times but most of the time there are a solutions to the various problems that can arise depending on the tone arm, player, cables and other stuff.

I have never experimented with any sort of tape but if I felt inclined I would go for led tape which I have use for golf clubs. Led is heavier and probably also better att damping due to its very dense properties. As I said I have tried this but go ahead and see what happens.

Thank you for the welcome. Indeed, I feel privileged to own such are rare and wonderful transducer!

I shall experiment with the damping tape and report whether it makes any difference

[Sensai]

Microphony- I have two turntables, a Townshend Elite (with damping trough)/Mayware formula 4/decapod Gold, and the other a Polish built parallel air-tracker with an ultra-short 5mm carbon arm and C4E. Now that the subject has been brought up, I'll test at high volume settings later today.

When I had the standard Blue (I still have a Grey) mounted on various popular British arms, microphony was obvious when the arm or headshell was tapped/stroked with a pencil at moderate to highish volume settings. Also noticeable at 1/2 volume.

Gold-  max. volume with arm at rest on end of the trough. No hum, just perceptible hiss. I used an artists brush handle and tapped the c/weight, no noise, c/weight has a rubber boss. Moving down, microphony heard on the arm pivot, and steadily increased down to the h/shell where it was worst, especially at the end of extension where the damper rod is. Tapping the cart. itself was noticably less.

C4E- max vol. (slight hum), tapping around the short arm and headshell was much lower than other arm and largely insignificant.

So, arm/headshell resonance? I think the alloy damper extension would benefit from some damping

[needlestein]

Chirping is a problem with the stylus holder damping being inadequate.  I got two rebuilt units back from John and they chirped.  I sent them back and he fixed them so they don’t chirp and explained the damper had perished.  I’m not sure exactly what the damper metrial is or where it’s located inside the body, but John knew how to fix it if one had a specific complaint about it. 

I have sent emails to John’s successor as I have acquired another Decca FFSS with a dead channel.  This is not something I can repair yet.  I am not happy to report that I have not received a response. Has anyone else inquired and received a response? 

[drmoss_ca]

It's very, very slow to get anything out of londondecca.com. I've been enquiring about getting a Jubilee converted to mono. Eventually I was told to send it to their tech in Devon, so I had to explain again I wasn't interested in a rebuild, but a mono conversion. Five weeks ago I was told the new owner would ring the tech and ask what he thought. No answer since, despite follow-up e-mails.

Chris

[rehabitat]

Chirping is a problem with the stylus holder damping being inadequate.  I got two rebuilt units back from John and they chirped.  I sent them back and he fixed them so they don’t chirp and explained the damper had perished.  I’m not sure exactly what the damper metrial is or where it’s located inside the body, but John knew how to fix it if one had a specific complaint about it. 

Hi Joseph,

I'm curious about how this fault accords with my experience. I generally experience the chirping sound during the first 1/4 of a side. When I hear it I remove the record and clean it using the wet/vac method and the chirping disappears every time. So I deduced that the chirping is caused by a dirty playing surface or possibly static build up that is removed by the cleaning process. Your description of the problem and solution causes me to wonder if we are speaking about the same issue, and if we are then how does poor damping of the stylus carrier relate to the difference I experience before and after cleaning the records?

Cheers,
Dave