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Author Topic: Telefunken TW509 Studio  (Read 1792 times)
Hofnar
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« on: September 22, 2017, 07:42:15 AM »



A fifty year old turntable/record changer in nearly mint condition! I got this gem for 300 SEK. Not a scratch, not even on the lid so I guess it´s seen very little (if any) use. Of course the (infuriatingly complicated) mechanism is clogged with (50 years old) hardened grease so I will have to spend some evenings cleaning and lubricating before the real fun can start.

Of course I will document and take pictures of my endeavours and post them here.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 01:29:37 PM by Hofnar » Logged
Kent T
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 03:59:43 AM »

This machine has a Telefunken brand name, but it's definitely 1960's Perpetuum-Ebner. Something along the lines of the 2038 or similar family. It's fiendishly complex of a changer, a Dyslexic take on Dual and ELAC ideas, in good working order very high performance and one of the best idler changers ever built by anyone. It can handle any cartridge a Dual can in similarly fine working order from the 1019 era.
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Idlers rule. Belt Drives Drool!
Hofnar
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 09:40:04 AM »

This machine has a Telefunken brand name, but it's definitely 1960's Perpetuum-Ebner. Something along the lines of the 2038 or similar family. It's fiendishly complex of a changer, a Dyslexic take on Dual and ELAC ideas, in good working order very high performance and one of the best idler changers ever built by anyone. It can handle any cartridge a Dual can in similarly fine working order from the 1019 era.
I thought it was the other way around, that the idler drive Duals were based on  the (and originally made by) Perpetuum Ebner. Still it looks very nice and I´m sure it will work nicely once I´ve gotten around to cleaning and lubing it.

Does anyone now how one changes the cartridge and adjusts/balances the tonearm?
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bluetomgold
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 10:10:11 AM »

My understanding: Dual bought out PE in the 70s but in the first place they were independent. No doubt both companies influenced each other. Yes PEs tend to be more complex but possibly better engineered. Post the Dual takeover the designs became more similar, and build quality dropped on both sides.
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I'm Tom
stratokaster83
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 12:36:55 PM »

Dual bought PE mainly because of their patents.

Their build quality dropped because they could not compete with Japanese companies and were forced to reduce costs.

A couple of Dual technicians on AudioKarma claim that some PEs are so complex they're practically unrepairable.
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bluetomgold
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 01:16:05 PM »

Dual bought PE mainly because of their patents.

Their build quality dropped because they could not compete with Japanese companies and were forced to reduce costs.

A couple of Dual technicians on AudioKarma claim that some PEs are so complex they're practically unrepairable.

I've repaired a couple of fully automatic PEs. Maybe I was lucky but they weren't that bad. I wouldn't say I fully understood what was going on but I managed to find the cause of the fault... (dried grease) and then take them apart and put them back together again... I don't particularly like working on automatic turntables but at least with the PEs you don't have to worry too much about breaking plastic parts in the process of fault-finding!

OTOH, I must have been feeling brave when I did them, my Dual 1019 is still sitting on the shelf waiting for me to finish fixing it... embarrassed

Re Japanese competition, well, yeah, the Japanese did pretty much beat Dual at their own game. Not as badly as Garrard though! IMO as lovely as these old German decks are they could all be accused of being both over complicated and over engineered. Even a Dual 505 is unnecessarily complicated compared to say a PL12D... With the older models that's their appeal nowadays, but from where I stand the Japanese did a lot of good in terms of bringing real quality to the masses.

The new generation of (relatively cheap) Dual automatic decks are really awful. It's one thing trying to compete with the Japanese in the 70s, another trying to beat the Chinese at their own game now. They are still 3 times as expensive as the equivalent Chinese made Pioneer or Audio Technica... and the Chinese decks are more reliable.  sad
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I'm Tom
Hofnar
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 01:44:51 PM »

...claim that some PEs are so complex they're practically unrepairable.
Awww... Gah! ropies_dontpanic
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Moreira
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 10:41:35 PM »

Awww... Gah! ropies_dontpanic
they are not that hard... (well, maybe some models are  laugh )
nice finding by the way
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